Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Canopy oversteer

 


flyingstrauss  (B 15358)

Oct 6, 2012, 11:47 AM
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Canopy oversteer Can't Post

Hey everyone,

Could someone explain aerodynamics of oversteer? I'm flying Springo 120 at 1.3, and when I practice different types of input up high, I noticed that it can oversteer really, really much. For instance, if I make a 360 degrees front riser turn, without counter input it can turn for like another 360. I learned to stop it with proper counter input in the harness, but I'm wondering does it have something to do with this type of canopy being trimmed too flat (Stiletto type of a canopy, with really short recovery arc)? Thanks.


EFS4LIFE  (D 31885)

Oct 6, 2012, 2:14 PM
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Re: [flyingstrauss] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no experience with a Springo but I do with the Stiletto. I am assuming it is a Stiletto clone.

Oversteer is common on some elliptical high performance parachutes. It is inheriant in their designs. The Stiletto being one of those. I believe it is caused by the degree of taper on the leading edge of the wing, or maybe its the trailing edge. I am sure somebody with more knowledge can clarify exactly which edge.


piisfish

Oct 8, 2012, 5:50 AM
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Re: [flyingstrauss] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

well if your canopy oversteers and you know it, if you want to "stop the turn and rollout" at the 360 mark, why don't you simply stop your rotation on fronts at a lesser degree, like at 270 degrees ?


DocPop  (C License)

Oct 8, 2012, 7:28 AM
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Re: [flyingstrauss] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

The pilot can have a significant effect on oversteer.

Those who lean into the turn will experience it to a greater extent than those who lean to the outside of the turn. This is due to the harness input (intentional or not) that they are applying.

Of course, some canopies are more sensitive to harness input than others and it will also vary with wing-loading.

Harness input is the best way to counter the effects of oversteer as it allows you to maximize the power of the turn while still keeping a clean airfoil.


AggieDave  (D License)

Oct 8, 2012, 8:43 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

You have to be careful pushing too much opposite harness to lock into a heading, since that isn't an instant on and instant off type of input. What many canopy pilots end up doing is rocking back and forth in the harness slightly after pushing a correction input in the harness. That movement eats up speed very quickly, even if it is very slight movement.

It is a combined effort of using the least amount of input that counters the turn/dive as possible to lock onto a heading while still generating max-power from the turn to swoop.


DocPop  (C License)

Oct 8, 2012, 9:24 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Dave.

I talked to a lot of pro swoopers this weekend and they were all talking about using the smoothest control inputs possible to achieve the goal.


flyingstrauss  (B 15358)

Oct 8, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Re: [DocPop] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, thank you for your answers. Smile Piifish, I don't do a 360 for landing, I just used it to illustrate the amount of oversteer I get. I don't do any rotation for landing yet, just a double fronts approach . So, how do you people deal with oversteer? Especially people flying high performance ellipticals (Katana, Crossfire) or crossbraced canopies? Do they have greater amount of oversteer than Stiletto type of canopies or not?


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 8, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Re: [flyingstrauss] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ok, thank you for your answers. Smile Piifish, I don't do a 360 for landing, I just used it to illustrate the amount of oversteer I get. I don't do any rotation for landing yet, just a double fronts approach . So, how do you people deal with oversteer? Especially people flying high performance ellipticals (Katana, Crossfire) or crossbraced canopies? Do they have greater amount of oversteer than Stiletto type of canopies or not?

Brian Germain would say fly your wing coordinated.
Have you seen a small thread in the cockpit of a glider?
Your indicator is your PC.
If your PC is pointing strait back, you are flying coordinate, not sliding, sliping.
Your canopy might have some oversteer, because is not super stable, but it is flying more efficient and faster than a square canopy in comparable size.
Try to imaging that you just don't release the controls if you finish your turn, but end if with a little opposite control.
You can do that with toggles or just harness turn.
check this
You could fly your canopy only with harness input until flare.
Feel and fly your canopy as little control input as possible.
You won't notice oversteer after some time if you do it right.


flyingstrauss  (B 15358)

Oct 10, 2012, 6:44 AM
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Re: [phoenixlpr] Canopy oversteer [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for your advice phoenixlpr, I'll practice these things. Hopefully I'll become better at it. Smile



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