I hate your type. The kind to make assumptions on scene and act like your actions are solely for yourself. I was in a live tissue course where we would be presented with a pig or goat that was shot with multiple shotgun rounds (8 to 10), 9mm rounds and mass blunt force trauma. I could not tell if it was a goat or a pig for the first hr or so. We keeped that goat alive for four hrs untill the simulated medevac came.
Your are not a Dr and you can't declare anyone dead. Do your job and shut your mouth.
I just think that the emotional strain on skydivers losing friends can be reduced through education.
Because knowing that everything possible was done to save their friend (even if it was in vain) is somehow MORE traumatic than wondering there might have been the tiniest chance the outcome might have been different if someone had responded immediately?
Most EMT courses that I am aware of teach that there is a human/emotional side to every scene, and sometimes you do CPR or load and go with someone you know was DOA just for the family's piece of mind. So they can go to bed at night knowing that everything possible was done.
(This post was edited by disastercake on Oct 3, 2012, 5:38 PM)
as an MD anesthesiologist, ACLS instructor and a member of the team that saved 1 skydiver in the field I wanted to say: You sir are an idiot. To anyone else who is interested in learning rescusitation - let me know and I'll be happy to call, email, post whatever. Please do not pay attention to this guy. Thanks
One thing you can remember: you cannot hurt anyone by doing CPR. Do it!
as an MD anesthesiologist, ACLS instructor and a member of the team that saved 1 skydiver in the field I wanted to say: You sir are an idiot. To anyone else who is interested in learning rescusitation - let me know and I'll be happy to call, email, post whatever. Please do not pay attention to this guy. Thanks
One thing you can remember: you cannot hurt anyone by doing CPR. Do it!
G-Bomb, Why are EMT's tought not to ? Ive asked a few medics, docs, and nurses and actually got alot of different responses which kind of scares me. I can't find any supporting documentaion to support my argument or yours. Can you help me ?
Well, I got some interest over PMs regarding this issue, so I'll give my opinion, bearing in mind that they are plentiful at DZ.com.
As to the source where different individuals get these "DNR" ideas, I'll tell you in detail: I don't know. I can only guess that the idea is: blunt force = ruptured big blood vessels in the chest = CPR will only bleed the victim out faster = No CPR. However, in this particular case doing CPR is NO WORSE than staring at them and doing nothing. Why don't OP enlighten us about pathophysiology of blunt force trauma? ... On the second thought, Let's not.
As far as American Heart Association goes - unresponsive people deserve CPR until they regain consciousness and care is escalated to get EMT, ambulance etc. One caveat - unresponsive guy on the couch Sunday morning in the hangar is not a CPR candidate, but rather need an "intervention" of the AA kind. One cannot judge from the outside +/- mechanism of injury if a victim can be resuscitated or not, but there aren't much alternatives. The newest AHA algorithms are simpler - not responsive and no spontaneous respiration - CPR. Once they wake up (ROSC - return of spontaneous circulation, evidenced by breathing, moving and/or swearing) they can be graduated to post-resuscitation care.
A word for people who had CPR class more than 4 yrs ago - the new guidelines allow for chest compression-only CPR if the provider is unable or unwilling to give rescue breaths. This was done because the lungs of the victim are usually full of oxygen that needs to be circulated with aid of compressions (unless it is a suffocation/drowning). Also, compression-only CPR is better than no CPR because bystander is too afraid to give rescue breaths. Additionally, uninterrupted chest compressions are shown superior because it takes several cycles of CPR to develop adequate pressure/blood flow and all this ground is lost with the smallest interruption in compressions. The compression rate is 100/min, with a useful memorization device being songs "another one bites the dust", or for the folks that jumped Capwells "staying alive" by Bee Gees. Please refrain from humming either during CPR, though Do not interrupt CPR for pulse checks as it wastes time. If DZ has an AED-defibrillator - use it. Some units can give cadence for CPR and feedback on compressions as well as possibly treat arrhythmia by shock. Call for help - soon. In my resuscitative effort at a boogie, someone was on the phone immediately to get help. Be aware of possible neck/back injury. Do not move the victim to take the rig/suit off unless absolutely necessary for CPR. Fear that EMTs will cut the rig/suit does not qualify, sorry. I wouldn't write this, but my own experience shows this is a prevalent issue.
Finally, next safety day - have DZO organize a BLS class. Invite an EMT or ACLS instructor. Figure out what will be the course of action if something happen.
I hope to never be in a situation where anyone I fly with needs my professional help. But those around me can count on this help being there if need be. How about you? Please ask questions, come by Skydive Monroe to chat, etc.
Please refrain from humming either during CPR, though
