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1 / 4 Cypress Fire?

 


adamhildreth  (C 110471)

Sep 27, 2012, 1:38 PM
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1 / 4 Cypress Fire? Can't Post

If I'm reading the stats correctly (22,000+ cypres fires and 79,000 sales) then we're looking at 1 / 4 cypress's being activated?

Does this sound right? It seems scarily high to me....?


Morrison79  (C 37447)

Sep 27, 2012, 1:51 PM
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

Where are the stats you're reading? link


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Sep 27, 2012, 1:54 PM
Post #3 of 22 (2815 views)
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting stat - where did the numbers come from?

I wonder what percentage of those that fired were on student Cypres units? I might think that number would be higher because 1) Well, students and 2) Those rigs are used only a few times by a large number of different jumpers, so the likelihood of multiple fires / unit is much higher than an AAD that's owned by a single individual for a higher number of jumps (at least my hope is that there aren't too many jumpers out there who have multiple AAD fires).

So, that assumption above would skew it so that it's not one in four units, but that there are probably a decent number of units in service that have multiple fires.


juggalo17  (A 64149)

Sep 27, 2012, 2:11 PM
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

If I'm reading the site correctly thats 79,000 Cypres 2s sold and 22,000 loops cut but doesn't say only by Cypres 2s. So I'm guessing that includes the originals as well.


adamhildreth  (C 110471)

Sep 27, 2012, 2:13 PM
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Re: [NWFlyer] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

Cypres-usa website.

the actual wording is:

"Over 79,000 CYPRES 2 units now in use!

22,000+ loops cleanly cut, ZERO FAILURES"

I'm guessing 'loops cleanly cut' refers to 'in use units' not just a test unit sat there constantly cutting loops Sly


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Sep 27, 2012, 2:23 PM
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that includes test loops. I know I have seen about 10-15 loops cut as part of demos on the ground and I know they test fire a portion out of every batch to verify they are correct.


Deyan  (D 322)

Sep 27, 2012, 2:48 PM
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm guessing 'loops cleanly cut' refers to 'in use units' not just a test unit sat there constantly cutting loops Sly

I don't know if you are aware, but in order to give a CYPRES approval to a container manufacturer ,Airtec test every model at least 36 times. That makes at least 36 'loops cleanly cut' ....

http://www.pia.com/...Documents/TS-112.pdf

And don't forget to add another 80 000 + Cypres 1 units to the equation Smile


CarpeDiem3  (D License)

Sep 27, 2012, 3:51 PM
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Re: [Deyan] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't some reserves have two loops, and therefore two cutters, so that a single Cypres activation would cut two loops simultaneously?


Mr_Polite  (D 420)

Sep 27, 2012, 4:27 PM
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would believe that. I know of a DZ that has atleast a few aad fires every year. They're never talked about online but it has ranged from student to highly experienced and also a tandem fire in the last few years.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 27, 2012, 9:23 PM
Post #10 of 22 (2581 views)
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Re: [Deyan] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'm guessing 'loops cleanly cut' refers to 'in use units' not just a test unit sat there constantly cutting loops Sly

I don't know if you are aware, but in order to give a CYPRES approval to a container manufacturer ,Airtec test every model at least 36 times. That makes at least 36 'loops cleanly cut' ....

http://www.pia.com/...Documents/TS-112.pdf

And don't forget to add another 80 000 + Cypres 1 units to the equation Smile

That is a recommendation from PIA and it pertains to all brands of AAD.s. The key word is recommended. I doubt that many manufactures have followed this protocol.


The intent of TS-112 is to provide a recommended test matrix for any Harness/Container manufacturer (TSOA holder) to complete in order to authorize installations of specific AADs into their products.


Sparky


Deyan  (D 322)

Sep 27, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Re: [mjosparky] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That is a recommendation from PIA and it pertains to all brands of AAD.s. The key word is recommended. I doubt that many manufactures have followed this protocol.


The intent of TS-112 is to provide a recommended test matrix for any Harness/Container manufacturer (TSOA holder) to complete in order to authorize installations of specific AADs into their products.


Sparky

Hi Michael,

In the past, Airtec did all those tests for the manufacturers for free. This is no longer the case. However their testing procedures were the same as the PIA TS-112. I wonder why Smile

What I'm trying to say is that if Airtec claim 22 000 'loops cleanly cut', I have no reason to doubt based on their history of testing rigs.


jurgencamps  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 6:08 AM
Post #12 of 22 (2468 views)
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If I'm reading the stats correctly (22,000+ cypres fires and 79,000 sales) then we're looking at 1 / 4 cypress's being activated?

Does this sound right? It seems scarily high to me....?

Testing, testing, testing ..... and some more testing and also lots of demonstrations and some more demonstrations.

If even "only" 1/10 cypress's were being activated, and 1/10 of those was a real save, ...


adamhildreth  (C 110471)

Sep 28, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #13 of 22 (2413 views)
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Re: [jurgencamps] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Testing, testing, testing ..... and some more testing and also lots of demonstrations and some more demonstrations.

If even "only" 1/10 cypress's were being activated, and 1/10 of those was a real save, ...

Thanks for the clarification.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:09 AM
Post #14 of 22 (2404 views)
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Re: [Deyan] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What I'm trying to say is that if Airtec claim 22 000 'loops cleanly cut', I have no reason to doubt based on their history of testing rigs.


I tend to agree with you. But their claim of loops cleanly cut I think is a dig on Argus.Wink

Sparky


Skybear

Sep 28, 2012, 2:57 PM
Post #15 of 22 (2269 views)
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

The exact number of saves could be tracked at the timeof Cypres 1 when the cutters had to be replaced at the factory. Now it can only be estimated as they are replaced in the field. The guesses vary between 3000 and 4000 saves. Way more than 2000 are definitely confirmed.

22000 cutted loops seems pretty reasonable with all the testing taken into account., plus all those applications of the Cypres cutter which are not skydive-related.


mark  (D 6108)

Sep 28, 2012, 3:54 PM
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Re: [Skybear] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I fired a couple cutters last week. Cut a ripcord cable. Then cut the ripcord pin. Kinda fun, though not particularly meaningful with respect to cutting closing loops. Unless we are going to have steel cable closing loops some day.

Mark


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Sep 28, 2012, 8:45 PM
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Re: [mark] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Mark,

Quote:
Unless we are going to have steel cable closing loops some day.

Well, there was once a reserve that was sealed with steel wire.

Tongue

JerryBaumchen


fcajump  (D 15598)

Oct 1, 2012, 6:54 AM
Post #18 of 22 (2028 views)
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Re: [adamhildreth] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a vague recollection of an ad from them in the late Cypres I days stating:

50,000 sold
1,000 saves

On the one hand I felt good with that many saves...

Until I looked around the DZ and realized there were over 50 people there, and (assuming everything else was true) therefore there was likely one person there that had failed to do the minimum to save their life... Good that who ever that was, was still with us... Bad that 1/50 need it...

PULL!
Pull On Time.
Pull Stable.
Pull clear of others.

J


5.samadhi

Oct 1, 2012, 7:20 AM
Post #19 of 22 (2018 views)
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Re: [fcajump] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

each cypres unit may serve multiple people so its probably much less than 1/50. I just bought a 11 year old cypres, I doubt I am the only skydiver that has used it Sly


fcajump  (D 15598)

Oct 1, 2012, 7:28 AM
Post #20 of 22 (2010 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed.

Not to mention student rigs.
Or those who were saved and never came back.

Still while the AAD's are doing their jobs (and the incident reports from 1990-present) show that change) it seems like a high number of AAD's fire because someone didn't do their job.

JW


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 1, 2012, 2:13 PM
Post #21 of 22 (1933 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
each cypres unit may serve multiple people so its probably much less than 1/50. I just bought a 11 year old cypres, I doubt I am the only skydiver that has used it Sly

Why would you buy an 11 year old AAD?

Sparky


melanie91  (C License)

Oct 1, 2012, 5:31 PM
Post #22 of 22 (1898 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 1 / 4 Cypress Fire? [In reply to] Can't Post

To give yourself a year and a half to save for a new one....?! I did exactly that not so long ago.


(This post was edited by melanie91 on Oct 1, 2012, 5:32 PM)



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