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Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video

 


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Sep 26, 2012, 3:55 PM
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Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video Can't Post

I've done as much searching as I can stand.

I'm not a TI but I do shoot video.

> Tandem Instructors < What is your normal wave-off altitude and pull altitude when you have an outside video person?

What altitude would you consider dangerous?

.


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 26, 2012, 4:22 PM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been doing tdm vid for many moons, it's always been 5.5 pretty much everywhere I've done vids.

Quote:
What altitude would you consider dangerous?

Anything below 2K. Well wait..... anything below 2K if I'm flying video and anything below 4 if doing the TDM.


AggieDave  (D License)

Sep 26, 2012, 4:25 PM
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I would do a big single hand wave with for the camera for the video, it was my wave off for the video flier. If the spot was long or something was wrong and I needed to dump high, I would a sort of double salute by touching my sunglasses then pointing out, then big hand wave and dump. The video guys I worked with knew what that all meant and would react accordingly.

Typically I would pull around 5k so my student would have time to fly the canopy around.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Sep 26, 2012, 5:49 PM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:


> Tandem Instructors < What is your normal wave-off altitude and pull altitude when you have an outside video person?


.

High enough to get the video guy back to the main landing area under a reserve. If it means cutting the tandem freefall short a couple thousand feet so be it. My teammates safety are more valuable than the students 6-12 seconds of freefall.

I don't expect the same when I fly video, I know better.


ETA: What are you doin' shooting video at your age? Aren't you worried about your bones breaking Tongue


(This post was edited by jtiflyer on Sep 26, 2012, 5:50 PM)


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Sep 26, 2012, 6:45 PM
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In reply to:
ETA: What are you doin' shooting video at your age? Aren't you worried about your bones breaking Tongue

I don't make that many jumps any more.

I'll only make about 350 this year and only 130-140 will be video.


irishrigger  (D 297)

Sep 26, 2012, 11:58 PM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

personally i start the wave off at 5.5k i want to make sure that the video person is backing away from me for a couple of seconds, before i pull the drogue release and then pull at 5k.
i explain to all camera people that jump with me, when i wave off i want them to move away (backslide) from me no matter what.
anything at 4k or below i would consider extremly dangerous if the video is still very near to me.
i also keep checking the spot, if i judge to be too deep i will wave of a bit early to give the camera guy a chance to make it back.
i think you will find that is the general consencous.

my 2 cents

blue and safe skies
rodger


theonlyski  (D License)

Sep 27, 2012, 5:33 AM
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Re: [AggieDave] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

5.5 for me, I usually flash 5-5 with one hand and the video guys know that means it's pull time. If the spot is long, I give the video guy a big L with my thumb and index finger and adjust the pull alti as needed to give him some space to get back. I've done plenty of videos getting hosed by the TI on the spot.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Sep 27, 2012, 5:58 AM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

Same as without video as a general rule. When Mark and I were trading tandem/video responsibilities, we both had audibles set to 6k. The video would "automatically" start to back off at 6k, and the tandem waiving at that time as well, pull around 5,5. But then you already know where I pull since you've shot video with me a time or two.

Martin


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Sep 27, 2012, 6:00 AM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've done as much searching as I can stand.

I'm not a TI but I do shoot video.

> Tandem Instructors < What is your normal wave-off altitude and pull altitude when you have an outside video person?

What altitude would you consider dangerous?

.

Sandy,
As a vidiot, what are your opinions/thoughts on the subject? Have you shot video of TIs pulling "low"?


Abedy  (D 10153)

Sep 27, 2012, 6:06 AM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In Germany, tandems must not pull lower than 1500 meters.

At my DZ, TIs usually indicate 2000 m (by showing index and middle finger, just like Winston Churchill) to the videot (who then backs away, in line of sight of the TI) and wave off at 1600/1550 m and pull at 1500 m.


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Sep 27, 2012, 9:06 AM
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Re: [skydived19006] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

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Sandy,
As a vidiot, what are your opinions/thoughts on the subject? Have you shot video of TIs pulling "low"?
Most of the TIs I shoot are very good and care about the video guy getting back safely. They usually do what you guys have been stating.

There is one who insists on taking the spot long and then he opens 1000 feet below everyone else. It's not un-usual for me to saddle out at 2500 feet with him on a long spot.

There have been times when I won't wait for him to signal. I just back out fast - float up - turn away and pull while keeping an eye on him to be sure he's not pulling.

He once got in a Turbine and got in first with several other tandems (with out video) getting out in front of him/us. I told him I wanted to get out before the other tandems and he said "no - we'll be fine".

I did not get on the load and told the DZO that it's not worth the risk for me. It took 5-7 minutes before another video guy could get ready while the prop was turning and burning fuel.

I've told manifest that I prefer not to film him.

.


(This post was edited by Skydivesg on Sep 27, 2012, 9:08 AM)


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Sep 27, 2012, 9:29 AM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

Somewhat off topic, but I had a TI helping my at my DZ a few years back. I deployed at my typical altitude around 5,5, and noticed that he was a good 1000 to 1500 below me. I talked with him, and asked him to deploy higher, for consistency if nothing else. He said "Sure, no problem." The next jump, he was again well below me. That jump was the last tandem he ever did on my DZ.

It would have been nice if the DZ management had simply required that this guy deploy above 5,000' when with video, if not on every jump. That would be the end of the problem, one way or another.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Sep 27, 2012, 3:43 PM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've done as much searching as I can stand.

I'm not a TI but I do shoot video.

> Tandem Instructors < What is your normal wave-off altitude and pull altitude when you have an outside video person?

What altitude would you consider dangerous?

.

I wave them off at 5500' and pull after I watch them separate, this usually has me opening above the BSR minimum of 4500'.

With today's slower opening Tandem and Up-jumper mains starting the process at 4500' or any lower starts to get dangerous. Since the Tandem rig must have and AAD (in the US) and they tend to cut the reserve closing loops at or around 2500' if you're risking a two out. The videoagrapher in trying to avoid you may find themselves low and in a similar situation.

Matt


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Sep 28, 2012, 6:01 AM
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Re: [matthewcline] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok a different question - how necessary is a wave off from the TI? I am both a TI and an outside vidiot. The process of reaching back is slow enough and obvious enough that I have enough time to backslide and around to the student pull side (we teach our tandems how to pull and I try to film that as part of the opening sequence). A wave off is nice but it takes 2 seconds to move out of the way and if you're paying attention to the TM you're filming it is obvious.

The loser symbol for a long spot is always nice though.


theonlyski  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 6:17 AM
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Re: [dirtbox] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ok a different question - how necessary is a wave off from the TI? I am both a TI and an outside vidiot. The process of reaching back is slow enough and obvious enough that I have enough time to backslide and around to the student pull side (we teach our tandems how to pull and I try to film that as part of the opening sequence). A wave off is nice but it takes 2 seconds to move out of the way and if you're paying attention to the TM you're filming it is obvious.

The loser symbol for a long spot is always nice though.

I have shot video for several TI's that went to pull and decided we were in a good enough spot, so they just held their hands there... For a while. I appreciate a wave off and I always give the video guy one if I'm on the other side.


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Sep 28, 2012, 6:26 AM
Post #16 of 25 (2808 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Ok a different question - how necessary is a wave off from the TI? I am both a TI and an outside vidiot. The process of reaching back is slow enough and obvious enough that I have enough time to backslide and around to the student pull side (we teach our tandems how to pull and I try to film that as part of the opening sequence). A wave off is nice but it takes 2 seconds to move out of the way and if you're paying attention to the TM you're filming it is obvious.

The loser symbol for a long spot is always nice though.

I have shot video for several TI's that went to pull and decided we were in a good enough spot, so they just held their hands there... For a while. I appreciate a wave off and I always give the video guy one if I'm on the other side.

Hell, I give the video guy a wave off when I'm shooting hand cam! He really appreciates it too!


(This post was edited by skydived19006 on Sep 28, 2012, 6:27 AM)


DougH  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 7:08 AM
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In reply to:

I have shot video for several TI's that went to pull and decided we were in a good enough spot, so they just held their hands there... For a while.

The infamous hand "snivel". SlyLaugh


theonlyski  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 7:11 AM
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Re: [DougH] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

I have shot video for several TI's that went to pull and decided we were in a good enough spot, so they just held their hands there... For a while.

The infamous hand "snivel". SlyLaugh

Another good one is when the TI is upset for whatever reason, exits perfectly belly to relative wind, reaches back for the drogue and pulls out the bird.... THEN throws the drogue. LaughLaugh


DougH  (D License)

Sep 28, 2012, 7:40 AM
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Re: [theonlyski] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another good one is when the TI is upset for whatever reason, exits perfectly belly to relative wind, reaches back for the drogue and pulls out the bird.... THEN throws the drogue. LaughLaugh[/reply

OK... THAT is one I haven't seen before. I would totally get off frame, I would be laughing to hard! Sly


Abedy  (D 10153)

Sep 28, 2012, 9:09 AM
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Re: [theonlyski] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another good one is when the TI is upset for whatever reason, exits perfectly belly to relative wind, reaches back for the drogue and pulls out the bird.... THEN throws the drogue. LaughLaugh

Erm... I had to do some searching and hope "to pull out the bird" is synonym to "to flip the bird" as described here? If yes: GREAT idea, I'll do that tomorrow SlySlySly


dragon2  (D 101989)

Sep 28, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Re: [DougH] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

I have shot video for several TI's that went to pull and decided we were in a good enough spot, so they just held their hands there... For a while.

The infamous hand "snivel". SlyLaugh

Not that funny... I've had a couple TMs do that to me, while being a long way out with hardly any wind. Resulting in a couple out landings for me. Including one hairy situation where I pulled straight after the tandem because i knew we were way out and I was going to have a lot of trouble making it back. Turned out i had a pretty violent spinning mal, plus the TM wanted to chop too because of linetwist. He couldn't, because I was spinning underneath him.
He managed to get out of the twists, I chopped and landed 2 villages away. He did make it back to the DZ. By the time I had hitched a ride back, I got chewed out by the passenger's boyfriend for not getting the landing on video.

Mad

Thanks a lot TM, for NOT pulling higher when I asked for it, and just keeping your hand on the release with a big smile on your face. Really, it's appreciated...

Now most of the TMs I shoot are pretty good about watching out for the videoflyer. But one or two...

Just 2 weeks ago i asked for the TM to check the spot beneath the, eh haze. He gave me a thumbs up and pulled at his regular altitude. When I pulled, I saw I was pretty far away and had to ride it back in brakes, just making it. The TM: Yeah, I just gave you a thumbs up, I didn't check the spot -smile-

Mad

Then the next jump, another TM pulled really high for me, and I had a couple thousand feet to spare Cool That TM at least understands teamwork Smile


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Sep 28, 2012, 7:30 PM
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Re: [skydived19006] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

just to clarify I do wave off (rock on with the right hand as i reach back - though one vidiot insists this isn't a wave off and that I don'tCrazy)... just asking the questions how needed is it really?


DougH  (D License)

Sep 29, 2012, 4:57 AM
Post #23 of 25 (2596 views)
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Re: [dragon2] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

I have shot video for several TI's that went to pull and decided we were in a good enough spot, so they just held their hands there... For a while.

The infamous hand "snivel". SlyLaugh

Not that funny... I've had a couple TMs do that to me, while being a long way out with hardly any wind. Resulting in a couple out landings for me. Including one hairy situation where I pulled straight after the tandem because i knew we were way out and I was going to have a lot of trouble making it back. Turned out i had a pretty violent spinning mal, plus the TM wanted to chop too because of linetwist. He couldn't, because I was spinning underneath him.
He managed to get out of the twists, I chopped and landed 2 villages away. He did make it back to the DZ. By the time I had hitched a ride back, I got chewed out by the passenger's boyfriend for not getting the landing on video.

Mad
teamwork Smile

I agree, I don't do it myself, but my dz doesn't do much outside video. I have had it done to me, and I see students and A licensed jumpers doing the hand snivel.


Shredex

Sep 29, 2012, 2:39 PM
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Re: [DougH] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

This may sound odd or whatnot...But if there is some clouds out, It's probably better to pull high enough that you are under canopy while still at the cloud level. I only say this because I remember my first jump in AFF I had to pull high due to DZ visibility. It was a good thing because that was the huge selling point for me. Being up there flying with the clouds...the calmness...the view...it was all just soo amazing and beautiful. I feel like if we could do this with some tandems, then that would encourage them to wanna jump more and potentially start their AFF and become a real skydiver!


idk...


craigbey  (C 31991)

Oct 5, 2012, 4:08 AM
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Re: [Skydivesg] Wave off - pull altitude for tandems w video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There is one who insists on taking the spot long and then he opens 1000 feet below everyone else. It's not un-usual for me to saddle out at 2500 feet with him on a long spot.

There have been times when I won't wait for him to signal. I just back out fast - float up - turn away and pull while keeping an eye on him to be sure he's not pulling.

He once got in a Turbine and got in first with several other tandems (with out video) getting out in front of him/us. I told him I wanted to get out before the other tandems and he said "no - we'll be fine".

Don't let anyone pull that junk in your yard!



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