Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Wings Reserve Toggle Packing

 


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 20, 2012, 11:05 PM
Post #1 of 20 (1546 views)
Shortcut
Wings Reserve Toggle Packing Can't Post

If you're a rigger who contains the entire handle portion of the reserve toggle, please stop doing that. That includes riggers who do work for the manufacture.

The handle should be easy to grab. If it's tucked away, even the most savvy of or reserve riders, has a difficult time gripping it quickly. Leave it out, fold it toward the top of the riser and leave it be. Don't tuck it way in the Velcro, or the keeper at the bottom.

Here is a picture of the toggle with the handle contained. It's difficult to grab in a hurry especially for a stressed out jumper.

Hope this helps.
Attachments: Wings Reserve Toggle.jpg (197 KB)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Sep 20, 2012, 11:23 PM
Post #2 of 20 (1526 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hookitt] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, they have one of the nicest reserve toggle designs. Less velcro, easier to grab.

Sometimes I use clamps on other rigs' toggles to give them a bit of a set, with the loose part folded upwards like on the Wings, before packing them up.


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 21, 2012, 4:44 AM
Post #3 of 20 (1470 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pchapman] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

I use a Wings and I'm a noob. If I was freaking out trying to find my reserve toggles I might be in deep shit looking at that not sure where to grab. Especially on my highly loaded (for me) reserve. I completely agree and THANK YOU. At least now I know what to work for.


peek  (D 8884)

Sep 21, 2012, 4:49 AM
Post #4 of 20 (1468 views)
Shortcut
Re: [hookitt] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you're a rigger who contains the entire handle portion of the reserve toggle, please stop doing that. Here is a picture of the toggle with the handle contained. It's difficult to grab in a hurry especially for a stressed out jumper.

I just went to their web site and looked at the manual. To me it seems like (from looking at the pictures) they are telling you to do just that. Have you received any comment from the manufacturer?

To me it seems like stowing a reserve toggle in a way that is difficult for it to catch on something and get pulled out, causing a spinning reserve, is more important than having it easy to pull out deliberately, but that's just my thoughts.


theonlyski  (D License)

Sep 21, 2012, 5:00 AM
Post #5 of 20 (1463 views)
Shortcut
Re: [peek] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
To me it seems like stowing a reserve toggle in a way that is difficult for it to catch on something and get pulled out, causing a spinning reserve, is more important than having it easy to pull out deliberately, but that's just my thoughts.

I pack main and reserve toggles with a fold in them so when they get out in the breeze, they open up.

In over 400 jumps (many of which are camera jumps) and 2 saves of packing this way, never once caused an issue and I was even thanked by one of the guys I saved for having the toggles easy to get their hands into.

Last thing I want is one of my saves to have to dick around trying to get their hands (and gloves) inside the toggle when they're already jacked on adrenaline. Fine motor movements are the first to go when the shit hits the fan.


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Sep 21, 2012, 5:01 AM)


pchapman  (D 1014)

Sep 21, 2012, 5:56 AM
Post #6 of 20 (1431 views)
Shortcut
Re: [peek] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just went to their web site and looked at the manual. To me it seems like (from looking at the pictures) they are telling you to do just that.

Good point. I dug into this issue a little more:

I looked at both and older and newer manuals. The black and white one with line drawings that they had for many years shows the excess of the toggle NOT going under the velcro, but on the other hand shows a toggle unlike what's actually on the rig, that only has a slight bit of excess length, gently curved, rather than with a big zigzag fold.

A newer "wings_reserve_packing.pdf" document doesn't address it in the text, and in one photo one can barely see the toggles in the dark to one edge of the photo, where it is hard to tell what is going on, but it seems to show the toggles NOT tucked under the velcro.

Finally, the new colour manual "wings_owners_manual.pdf" doesn't mention tucking under the velcro, and shows a photo of the toggle NOT tucked.

(The new manual has no date or revision number on it, that I can see, unlike the previous black and white manual....)


So it is all a bit messy. To [sort of] summarize: Nowhere does it specifically say to ensure the excess is not tucked, however, instructions never say to tuck it. The newest manual clearly shows no tucking in a photo, while the traditional manual available for many years doesn't show the excess tucked, yet it doesn't properly represent the type of toggle used on the rig either.

If someone is confused by the novel design feature and tucks the excess toggle loop under the velcro, they should realize that this totally negates the design feature of having such relatively 'big grab' toggles.


(This post was edited by pchapman on Sep 21, 2012, 6:04 AM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 22, 2012, 4:08 PM
Post #7 of 20 (1266 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I use a Wings and I'm a noob. If I was freaking out trying to find my reserve toggles I might be in deep shit looking at that not sure where to grab. Especially on my highly loaded (for me) reserve. I completely agree and THANK YOU. At least now I know what to work for.

Donít worry about the toggles, with 97 jumps landing a reserve loaded at 1.33 will probably kill you anyway.

Sparky


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 22, 2012, 5:26 PM
Post #8 of 20 (1245 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think it would kill me...Unless it was a double mal... i have jumped at 1.21 no problem. Its just a .12 diff. Is 1.33 really that hardcore ? I'm being sincere because i have heard that that's a beginner wingload?
Am I getting bad advise ?
Students:

< 1,1
lbs / sqft
Beginners:

1,1 - 1,5
lbs / sqft
Advanced Pilots:

1,5 - 2,0
lbs / sqft
Pro-Pilots:

2,0 - 2,4
lbs / sqft
Aerobatic Pilots:

2,4 - 2,8
lbs / sqft


AggieDave  (D License)

Sep 22, 2012, 5:29 PM
Post #9 of 20 (1243 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
1,1 - 1,5
lbs / sqft
Advanced Pilots:

An "Advanced Pilot" has around 400-500 jumps.

You have less than 100 and need to seriously re-think your decisions.


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 22, 2012, 5:38 PM
Post #10 of 20 (1237 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

crap... I did find this
A licenseó1.0 psf maximum
B licenseó1.0 psf maximum
C licenseó1.2 psf maximum
D licenseó1.4 psf maximum
I appreciate your help. I'm loaded too high on my main as it is... I need to lose at least 10 pounds fast... I'm a safe skydiver, Just didnt realize I was that highly loaded. Thank you.


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 22, 2012, 5:40 PM
Post #11 of 20 (1236 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

That first chart says that 1.1-1.5 is for begginers... Am I missinterpereting it ?


AggieDave  (D License)

Sep 22, 2012, 6:23 PM
Post #12 of 20 (1219 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That first chart says that 1.1-1.5 is for begginers... Am I missinterpereting it ?

Yes you are.

A general rule of thumb is a tenth per 100 jumps. So 1.2 is 200 jumps, 1.3 is 300 jumps and so forth until you have 1,000 jumps.

In terms of canopy piloting experience 100 jumps is literally a new-baby beginner. 200 jumps is close to the same. Until you get 500 jumps you're not even beginning to scratch the surface.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 23, 2012, 5:18 PM
Post #13 of 20 (1147 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

How many jumps do you have on a F-111 type 7 cell?

Sparky


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 23, 2012, 5:32 PM
Post #14 of 20 (1144 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

About 60 Unsure


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 23, 2012, 11:08 PM
Post #15 of 20 (1107 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
About 60 Unsure

And what canopy would that be?

Sparky


(This post was edited by mjosparky on Sep 23, 2012, 11:09 PM)


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 24, 2012, 12:17 AM
Post #16 of 20 (1096 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mjosparky] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

Spectre 190. Pirate


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 24, 2012, 12:53 AM
Post #17 of 20 (1088 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

But Sparky, that was when I weighed 210 Lbs of pure asshole. I lost 40 Lbs. Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.


FlyingPortagee  (A 64429)

Sep 24, 2012, 1:08 AM
Post #18 of 20 (1082 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

I just don't want you to hate me. I'll jump a 266 if youlle jump with me, I dont care if I fall super slow as long as Im safe and accurate.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Sep 24, 2012, 6:51 AM
Post #19 of 20 (1032 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

Changed your profile eh. That wonít make it land and easier.

I am not a Jedi, just an old man that survived 30 years in the sport by learning from the mistakes of others. You should try it sometime.

Sparky


hookitt  (D License)

Sep 24, 2012, 4:10 PM
Post #20 of 20 (973 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FlyingPortagee] Wings Reserve Toggle Packing [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I use a Wings and I'm a noob. If I was freaking out trying to find my reserve toggles I might be in deep shit looking at that not sure where to grab. Especially on my highly loaded (for me) reserve. I completely agree and THANK YOU. At least now I know what to work for.

Normally they should not be contained and should be easy to grab. It's not a factor when packed correctly.

Regardless you can see the toggle no problem. It's where any toggle would be on any other riser in the world. It's just a pain to grab if it's contained flat like it is in the photo I put up.

I've seen it come back from the manufacturer like that, and from DZ riggers. Mind you, many factory riggers are just riggers from the nearest dropzone. They gotta start somewhere.


BTW, a Spectre is not f-111. It is a 7 cell of course but it's a full ZP canopy.



Forums : Skydiving : Gear and Rigging

 


Search for (options)