Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Any riggers use a humidifier?

 


woppyvac  (D 33147)

Sep 18, 2012, 7:47 AM
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Any riggers use a humidifier? Can't Post

I've been packing reserves in my house, where there is almost no humidity in the air, and with every pack job I'm constantly battling lots of bulk. I've been trying to tweak my methods to keep things neater & tighter but to no real avail. I was contemplating buying a humidifier to use in my packing room and wanted to see if anyone else has tried this, thoughts, negatives/pros, etc.?

Any tips n' tricks would also be appreciated!



A lil background: I've only got 40 pack jobs under my belt so I'm sure as time progresses I'll increase in the craft. Learned from Dave Dewolf's course.

TY,
Vince


piisfish

Sep 18, 2012, 8:14 AM
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Re: [woppyvac] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

how dry is it ?
I actually use a de-humidificator in my loft


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Sep 18, 2012, 8:46 AM
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Re: [woppyvac] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Injecting moisture into a packjob that is to be highly compressed and selaed is probably not a great idea. I've heard of other guys hanging the reserve in their washroom and turning on the hot water in the shower to get some moisture in the air. In general, water and reserves are not a great combination and I think adding water in any way or amount is not the answer.

I pack in the basement of a centrally air conditioned home. It's very dry and cool. Not the best combination, but unless the reserve you're working on is brand new and too small for the container...it should go in once properly packed/handled. I've never had an issue.

Not trying to insult you in any way, but it's probably skill that you need to help with the reserves, not moisture. It may not hurt to hang out with another rigger and spend some extra time fine tuning your skills/technique.

FWIW, I have just a couple less packjobs than you do.


(This post was edited by Chris-Ottawa on Sep 18, 2012, 8:49 AM)


woppyvac  (D 33147)

Sep 18, 2012, 9:03 AM
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

No insult taken! I know my level of experience is low, so input is aways welcomed. Every job thus far has been done perfectly... I'm just trying to get tweaking ideas so I'm not having to constantly reflake and reflake the canopy to insure it's in the bag optimally.


sundevil777  (D License)

Sep 18, 2012, 9:04 AM
Post #5 of 16 (1347 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Injecting moisture into a packjob that is to be highly compressed and selaed is probably not a great idea.

Who said anything about injecting?

In reply to:
I think adding water in any way or amount is not the answer.

The question was about the use of a humidifier in the room. That doesn't mean a sprinkler.

If the use of a humidifier causes concern, then what level of humidity would you want to stay under? Your concern implies that a dehumidifier should be used by those in naturally humid conditions.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 18, 2012, 9:09 AM
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Re: [woppyvac] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
This is a trick that others have used in the past without any problems. If you're not going crazy with the humidifier, you should be fine. If it's still comfortable for you to work, it's OK.

Some have even argued that this is the better way to go if you live/jump where it does get humid. If you pack a fully 'dry' reserve, and have to set the closing loop accordingly, what happens when the rig is taken outside and the canopy packs down when it gets 'wet'? Some have suggested that the loop could loosen up in the end.


theonlyski  (D License)

Sep 18, 2012, 9:11 AM
Post #7 of 16 (1333 views)
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Re: [woppyvac] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've been packing reserves in my house, where there is almost no humidity in the air, and with every pack job I'm constantly battling lots of bulk. I've been trying to tweak my methods to keep things neater & tighter but to no real avail. I was contemplating buying a humidifier to use in my packing room and wanted to see if anyone else has tried this, thoughts, negatives/pros, etc.?

Any tips n' tricks would also be appreciated!



A lil background: I've only got 40 pack jobs under my belt so I'm sure as time progresses I'll increase in the craft. Learned from Dave Dewolf's course.

TY,
Vince

I don't use a humidifier. My apt is usually around a 50% humidity according to my thermostat.

For the ones that want to stay fluffy on me... I put a clean towel over the canopy and put 2x50lb weight plates on it for a while. That usually squeezes enough of the air out and makes it nice and easy to get a clean fold with.


woppyvac  (D 33147)

Sep 18, 2012, 9:19 AM
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Re: [theonlyski] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks. I like that towel idea... never heard of that one b4.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 18, 2012, 9:52 AM
Post #9 of 16 (1287 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Injecting moisture into a packjob that is to be highly compressed and selaed is
>probably not a great idea.

Reserves aren't sealed against moisture, and on every load air is forced into and removed from the reserve. If you jump in Florida there will be a lot of moisture in your reserve; if you jump in Perris in the summer there won't be. And outside of your rigger hosing your reserve down, the humidity in the room while it's being packed won't affect that.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Sep 18, 2012, 1:35 PM
Post #10 of 16 (1186 views)
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Re: [billvon] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, to start, here's what I pictured some new rigger doing after reading this thread:

In a small enclosed room, putting the reserve and a humidifier on and leaving it for a couple of hours. The resulting reserve is "damp", but very easy to work with. It gets packed and turns into a block as time passes. I know that may sound far fetched, but there are MANY MANY people out there that don't know any better.

As far as moisture being forced into and out of your reserve, I think that's a bit far fetched. First, many of the freebags out there are ZP...therefore, next to no moisture would be forced through that. Secondly, have you ever tried blowing/sucking through 2, 3, 4, 5, 20, 30 layers of F-111 that are tightly compressed together? Pretty sure not much air/moisture is getting through the first layer or two there either. To be my own devil's advocate, even if you did add humidity to the room, it would likely take days for that humid air to work it's way into the reserve (assuming it was opened up). If it was sealed, forget about it...zero effect unless it was left there for weeks.

Anyways, it is in my opinion (and we all know how much that matters on dz.com) that if you can't pack a reserve without artificially introducing moisture, maybe you shouldn't be packing them in the first place. Hell, while you're at it, you could probably get awesome creases if you just ironed the folds after they were there too. But I know you'd iron it on low because we all know it would melt, and you'd be really safe too!

Personally, I think it's an all around bad idea...and I'm done.


theonlyski  (D License)

Sep 18, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #11 of 16 (1181 views)
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Re: [woppyvac] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks. I like that towel idea... never heard of that one b4.

For what it's worth, the towel is only there to serve as a barrier between the weights and the canopy. It would probably not have any effect on the humidity of the canopy. (unless the fucker is soaked and you shouldn't be packing it anyways)


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Sep 18, 2012, 1:41 PM)


sundevil777  (D License)

Sep 18, 2012, 2:12 PM
Post #12 of 16 (1158 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As far as moisture being forced into and out of your reserve, I think that's a bit far fetched. First, many of the freebags out there are ZP...therefore, next to no moisture would be forced through that

I wasn't aware of ZP freebags, but it doesn't matter, because they have a big opening, where the canopy is inserted. They aren't sealed. Every time you go up and down in altitude, there is a large pressure difference driving the air in and out of the rig.

In reply to:
Secondly, have you ever tried blowing/sucking through 2, 3, 4, 5, 20, 30 layers of F-111 that are tightly compressed together? Pretty sure not much air/moisture is getting through the first layer or two there either.

The air will definitely get through multiple layers, just more slowly. How do you think it is possible to get a canopy that is already in a freebag to compress a bit more, then a bit more? Some air gets pushed out. If the air didn't get pushed through multiple layers, your reserve would expand a bunch at altitude.

In reply to:
in my opinion (and we all know how much that matters on dz.com) that if you can't pack a reserve without artificially introducing moisture, maybe you shouldn't be packing them in the first place.

I can agree with you on that, the advantage of humidity shouldn't be needed to pack a rig, but riggers face a lot of rigs that are tight, and don't feel that they can turn away so many customers. I am happy to have a properly sized reserve for my container, my rigger knows that it won't be a struggle. If my rig was a challenge, I would be glad that my rigger knew this very reasonable method to minimize that battle rather than just brute force.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Sep 18, 2012, 2:13 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Sep 18, 2012, 4:56 PM
Post #13 of 16 (1114 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

>In a small enclosed room, putting the reserve and a humidifier on and
>leaving it for a couple of hours. The resulting reserve is "damp", but very
>easy to work with. It gets packed and turns into a block as time passes.

I have never heard of a reserve not deploying because it was a "block." George Galloway has deployed reserves packed for 20 years; they have opened just fine.

Nor have I ever heard of a canopy packed in a humid area having any trouble. (I have seen canopies packed _wet_ have problems but that's not what we are talking about here.)

>Secondly, have you ever tried blowing/sucking through 2, 3, 4, 5, 20, 30
>layers of F-111 that are tightly compressed together?

Air doesn't get in through the fabric. Air gets in through the nose, just like it does when you inflate it in freefall.

There are sealed systems out there (primarily military) that have a hermetic barrier; they allow no air in or out. Sport reserves aren't like that. When you go up in the airplane, air comes out. Jumper's reserves do not get "puffy" when they go on a high altitude jump because the air can't escape. It does escape, through the cell openings, the freebag opening, the seams in the container etc. When you descend, the air goes back in.


tdog  (D 28800)

Sep 18, 2012, 8:34 PM
Post #14 of 16 (1078 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As far as moisture being forced into and out of your reserve, I think that's a bit far fetched.

Years ago a building flooded in Colorado at a state University.

The walls were thick stone with plaster and drywall on the inside.

The restoration company brought in large desiccant dehumidifiers. They dropped the humidity to nearly 0% inside in order to dry the building as quick as possible.

Days and days went by and the exterior walls would never dry out. Turns out - the moisture from the outside air was trying so hard to be in equilibrium with the inside air, which was so abnormally dry, that the moisture moving thru the walls saturated the bricks. They turned off the dehumidifiers and quickly things went back to normal once the vapor pressure on both sides of the wall was the same.

Ok, so how does this apply to reserves? Without scientific study, but with a pretty good gut feeling after soaking many canopies in rivers/lakes/swimming pools - not even ZP is waterproof like a ziplock bag. Water slowly moves thru the fabric and where it is stitched.

I think if the moisture can move thru 6" of solid stone, it can move thru woven fabric too, even ZP.


piisfish

Sep 19, 2012, 1:19 AM
Post #15 of 16 (1049 views)
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Re: [Chris-Ottawa] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

the humidity is not "forced" through the fabric. Do not forget the hygroscopic properties of nylon


erdnarob  (D 364)

Sep 21, 2012, 5:59 PM
Post #16 of 16 (906 views)
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Re: [woppyvac] Any riggers use a humidifier? [In reply to] Can't Post

The conditions to keep a parachute equipment is when it's comfortable for humans ie. around 70% of relative humidity and 70 degrees F. Some place like Arizona can be very dry which is in favor of a lot of static electricity then more bulk. OTOH regions such as Atlantic climate of Western Europe are very humid. Then if you buy an hygrometer (hair type is the best) and you calibrate it by wrapping it for a couple of minutes into a wet towel and adjust it at 100%, you will be able to check your relative humidity by getting a humidifier if the RH is too low.Wink



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