Sep 11, 2012, 12:05 AM
Post #4 of 25
(1765 views)
Shortcut
Re: [theonlyski] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
also from french magazine Paramag, they recently had in France 3 cases of AAD fires (both major current brands, non Speed versions), of fires during landing phase under highly loaded crossbraced canopies. Twice the same jumper in 2 weeks time. http://paramag.fr/et-de-3-2/
PhreeZone (D License)
Moderator
Sep 11, 2012, 6:43 AM
Post #5 of 25
(1680 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Could someone translate this? I could do a google translate on it but those are usually missing some minor details and I want to make sure this info is right.
Sep 11, 2012, 6:53 AM
Post #6 of 25
(1672 views)
Shortcut
Re: [PhreeZone] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
The paramag article didn't really say much specific.
It noted that there were 3 incidents in France this year, and one was on a Velo 103 at 1.8 loading. The 3 incidents are for all AAD manufacturers combined, although it doesn't specifically say whether 1 or more AAD brands were involved.
Other than that it is all general warnings about having the right settings or unit if you are highly loaded and swooping fast, blah blah blah, with links to French federation warning bulletins (with similar info), and a recap of the Adrian Nicholas death years ago.
Edit to add: It seems the previous warnings and bulletins used a wing loading of 2.2 as an example of where the risk really started to go up, but they note that there's more to it than just that, because in this case a loading of 1.8 was sufficient to set off an AAD.
(This post was edited by pchapman on Sep 11, 2012, 6:58 AM)
Sep 11, 2012, 8:08 AM
Post #7 of 25
(1637 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pchapman] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
Something else this article mentioned was that this new event was at a higher elevation DZ, which may have "helped" in getting the vertical speed to into AAD fire mode with the less dense air even with a "lower" wingload of 1.8 (and no, it didn't say what the altitude of the DZ was).
(This post was edited by Remster on Sep 11, 2012, 8:09 AM)
Sep 11, 2012, 8:26 AM
Post #8 of 25
(1625 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Remster] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
the fires of the small fast canopies are certainly not misfires. They are correct fires, with canopy pilots exceeding the limits of the technology they have.
If you knew that your car would fire the airbags when you go over the speedlimit, how fast would you drive ?
Sep 12, 2012, 9:32 AM
Post #16 of 25
(1213 views)
Shortcut
Re: [theonlyski] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
If so how did you come to get the information?
What bearing does that have?
Absolutely none. Apparently nobody involved wants to talk about two potentially deadly events. Oh well, maybe next time.
I dunno... it might help if you could at least help to triangulate where the events might have happened, so while I don't really care who told you, it might be nice to know that "misfire 1 was at a Wyoming DZ and misfire 2 was in New Hampshire." (Yes, I've deliberately chosen two states that I'm pretty sure don't have full-time dropzones since I have no idea where the incidents took place and don't want to get any rumors started ).
I have Vigils in both my rigs - I have an interest in learning more about whether the fires were within the known parameters of the device or outside those parameters. I just happen to think there's better ways to get to information than "I heard that something happened somewhere."
PhreeZone (D License)
Moderator
Sep 12, 2012, 10:06 AM
Post #18 of 25
(1194 views)
Shortcut
Re: [NWFlyer] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
I'll get specific on it since I have had details passed to me since multiple people have messaged me and they are afraid to go public with the info.
Skydive the Farm was said to have had a Vigil fire on a tandem with video at 5000 feet. I started an incidents thread on this one. Vigil should have the unit and I am awaiting the results.
Another one was said to have occurred at Mountain Gravity in Switzerland last weekend, this one was a regular Vigil that fired on the bottom end of a 360 degree swoop on a canopy loaded at 2.0.
I'll put info out on another two I know of first hand.
Wingsuiter had one fire at about 4000 feet in the middle of a flight in Ohio early this summer. They were in the process of waiving off for deployment and next thing they knew they were under a canopy.
Another one in Ohio occurred last fall when a jumper was flying their pattern and was about to start a swoop and it ended up firing. This was after they had been under canopy for a bit. That unit was sent back to the factory and I never heard why it fired.
Sep 13, 2012, 12:36 PM
Post #20 of 25
(1031 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Abedy] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
For the record, there was also an Expert Cypres fired labor day weekend in California at the bottom end of a 900+ degree turn. Jumper landed the two out biplane. Mind you, this was not a misfire, the unit acted within the parameters it was designed for.
Pertinent Info: JFX loaded at 2.4. Turn started at 1100' and did a ~990 degree turn. Estimated firing altitude 150-100'.
Jumper plans to move to a Speed Cypres. I'm actually quite amazed that these incidents are happening at the rate and frequency we are hearing. If you swoop, get the right tool - or don't use an AAD.
Sep 13, 2012, 12:44 PM
Post #21 of 25
(1024 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jacketsdb23] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
For the record, there was also an Expert Cypres fired labor day weekend in California at the bottom end of a 900+ degree turn. Jumper landed the two out biplane. Mind you, this was not a misfire, the unit acted within the parameters it was designed for.
Pertinent Info: JFX loaded at 2.4. Turn started at 1100' and did a ~990 degree turn. Estimated firing altitude 150-100'.
Jumper plans to move to a Speed Cypres. I'm actually quite amazed that these incidents are happening at the rate and frequency we are hearing. If you swoop, get the right tool - or don't use an AAD.
Just wanted to make sure that wasn't a typo. 900+ degrees at 1100'? I know a PD factory guy doing half that turn at the same or slightly higher altitude.
Sep 13, 2012, 9:48 PM
Post #23 of 25
(915 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jacketsdb23] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
In reply to:
Jumper plans to move to a Speed Cypres. I'm actually quite amazed that these incidents are happening at the rate and frequency we are hearing. If you swoop, get the right tool - or don't use an AAD.
^^THIS.
Seriously, folks. If you're throwing a 900 on a JFX, you oughtta know better than to fly a Cypres Expert or a Vigil (or any other standard, non-speed AAD).
Are we going to need an AAD rating now?
billvon (D 16479)
Moderator
Sep 14, 2012, 11:30 AM
Post #24 of 25
(820 views)
Shortcut
Re: [LloydDobbler] Vigil misfires this weekend?
[In reply to]
Can't Post
>Seriously, folks. If you're throwing a 900 on a JFX, you oughtta know better than to >fly a Cypres Expert or a Vigil (or any other standard, non-speed AAD).
In addition, if you are doing that (and jumping a container with a tiny main and reserve) a realistic appraisal of the risks to your life would not include "death due to lack of AAD." Save the money.
). 
trigger_happy_aad.jpg
