Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Single-surface canopies?

 


bravoniner  (B 8305)

Sep 7, 2012, 2:42 PM
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Single-surface canopies? Can't Post

Looks like some European paraglider designers are having success with ultralight, single-surface wings, and they appear very quick to recover from collapses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YsdvrIRRE&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug44-NcT9Ro&feature=channel&list=UL

I wonder if any canopy manufacturers are experimenting with similar light, ultra-low-volume, single-surface canopies.

B9


sundevil777  (D License)

Sep 7, 2012, 3:04 PM
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Re: [bravoniner] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

It sure looks like there is an upper and lower skin, at least for a little way back from the leading edge.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Sep 7, 2012, 3:09 PM
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Re: [sundevil777] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It sure looks like there is an upper and lower skin, at least for a little way back from the leading edge.

Yep. That's what it looks like to me too.


chemfx  (C License)

Sep 7, 2012, 3:28 PM
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sundevil777  (D License)

Sep 7, 2012, 3:31 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
It sure looks like there is an upper and lower skin, at least for a little way back from the leading edge.

Yep. That's what it looks like to me too.

It sure could start some interesting prospects for canopies that would be single skin after the B,C, or even D lines. Significantly less pack volume, weight, less cost...


councilman24  (D 8631)

Sep 7, 2012, 4:31 PM
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Re: [sundevil777] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see two skins, I see a rolled under top skin on the front and a pulled down top skin around the rest. No inflated cells. More akin to a very shallow, squashed round canopyTongue With internal lines to hold the shape. instead of cell walls and bottom skin. May explain why you it recovers so well. It's essentially one big crossport. In other words air from the entire canopy can flow to the collapsed part.

Of course your old enough to have heard about or even jumped about the partial cell canopies.Wink

A paper on current experiments as kites is at http://2e5.com/kite/volkite/

A Volplane from 1970, patent referred to in above article, is attached.

But the single skin para glider might have application. NOT being a parachute designer I would expect the issue to be opening in freefall. Both functionally opening at high speeds and in construction that would hold together.
Attachments: Bohn-A-1970-09-22-Volplane.jpg (6.76 KB)


councilman24  (D 8631)

Sep 7, 2012, 4:33 PM
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Of course a Pioneer K-XX or a Piglet was an "light, ultra-low-volume, single-surface canopy"Tongue To translate a 20' diameter round parachute.

Performance didn't quite measure up though.Angelic


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Sep 8, 2012, 5:06 AM
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Re: [sundevil777] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It sure could start some interesting prospects for canopies that would be single skin after the B,C, or even D lines. Significantly less pack volume, weight, less cost...

In the 70s there were two canopy designs that had a a dual layer in the front and later went to a single skin design in the rear. The canopies were called the Volplane and the Hornet. Both made by Pioneer. I have jumped and own both models of canopies and they aren't the greatest of chutes. The front of the canopy some rigidity but there is a lot of span wise distortion in them and they act like larger size parachutes.

Looking at the webpage of this glider:

http://www.adrenaline.com.es/...rs/HOME_BATLITE.html

The gallery shows some better photos of the glider. The basics of this design are nothing new. A parachute and glider from the 1960's had a similar idea and this seems to be a more modern take on it. The parachute I am referring to is the Barish Sailwing. The front of the sailwing was the skin of the parachute rolled over just like this Batlite 1.8 and the rest is a single skin.

The design is different but there are concepts that are very similar. The additional suspension line points and smaller gores, with the addition of stiffer material will reduce much of the span wise distortion that is typical associated with this style of design. It is still there but it is greatly reduced. It is nice to see a more modern take on this old design.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Sep 8, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Re: [Beatnik] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Beatnik,

Quote:
In the 70s there were two canopy designs that had a a dual layer in the front and later went to a single skin design in the rear. The canopies were called the Volplane and the Hornet.

This was Pioneer's way of getting around the patents that Snyder held.

Pioneer eventually made a copy of the Para-Flite's Delta Cloud ( among other names for a similar canopy ) by having a 2-layer canopy back to about 3-4 inches from the tail, where it went to a single layer.

I think this Pioneer canopy may have been called the Viking, but I just do not really remember.

Those patents can be nasty buggers.

Snyder came from a family of attorneys so he would pursue anyone treading on his patents.

JerryBaumchen

PS) A good friend of mine was given a Hornet by Pioneer to evaluate. He eventually removed the D-lines and used it as his reserve. Tongue


eric.fradet

Sep 8, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Re: [sundevil777] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

It sure looks like there is an upper and lower skin, at least for a little way back from the leading edge
________________________________________________
No there is no, I can guarantee to you, since I am use to fly everyday in southearn of france close to this type of wing ! the design has been invented by luc armant from ozone, and the link you refeer it is just a bad copy, in fact it gives to you the picture of a double surface but there is only one but there are 1 foot rods to hold the nose of the single surface curved such if you have not seen in live, you think it is a double surface;
one month ago, an experimented pilot took off from Chamonix Valley at 3000 feet high and reached 17000 feet altitude to land on the top of Mont Blanc. The goal of this design is to have a very thin packing volume in order to climb eazy..


d123  (B 6134)

Sep 8, 2012, 1:06 PM
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Re: [eric.fradet] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

There are some Quebec kites called Paraskiflex that are single layer and they are amazingly easy to use and give quite a lift.
http://www.paraskiflex.com/


RiggerLee

Sep 8, 2012, 5:44 PM
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Re: [eric.fradet] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

How does the performance compare to more conventional paragliders?

I wonder if you could get a fully soft version to open. I'd love to cut down on the weight and bulk of the canopies we are useing. The 1200 is a 62 lb brick.

Lee


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Sep 8, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

THe Temple of Heaven Parachute Company of China used to make a single surface, flat rigged cargo canopy. It looked like on of our ram-air canopys with no top skin or ribs. I don't believe it was steerable. I have a brochure on it.

Oh, I almost forgot Jerry, the Pioneer copy of the Cloud was a Titan. I had one and thought the reason for the single tail was that they ran out of fabric.Smile


(This post was edited by JohnSherman on Sep 8, 2012, 10:44 PM)


Andy9o8  (D License)

Sep 8, 2012, 10:57 PM
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Re: [bravoniner] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm developing exactly such a canopy myself, in my garage workshop. I'm thinking of calling it the Para-Dactyl. Cool, eh?

Wait til you see the new-fangled shot-&-a-half Capewells I'm trying to patent.

It also occurs to me, if I move the reserve from the currently inefficient place on the rear - to the front of the jumper's MLW! - it would help improve stability, just like a badminton birdie!.

Pretty soon I'll need a ZZ Top beard.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Sep 8, 2012, 11:00 PM)


RiggerLee

Sep 9, 2012, 10:53 AM
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Come on it's not that weird. I always wanted to play with some thing like this. And for the record there are a lot of single surface airfoils. You see them in some ultra lights. Look at the quick silver sprint. They are a bit draggy, not the most eficant things in the world but they've flown for years.

Lee


eric.fradet

Sep 9, 2012, 1:37 PM
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Re: [RiggerLee] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

How does the performance compare to more conventional paragliders?
__________________________________________________
actually it is pretty good, glide ratio is about 9 like most of cross country wings we use, but compare the best paragliders whose glide ratio is about 12, you cannot compete; as I previously wrote the design is made to get a small packing volume in order for people who climb up by foot to be lighter. For skydiving use, there is maybe a chance since the rods which are made to "build" a nose , are in plastic cable harder than cuttaway cable in order to give the shape , but quite close..


ruthers  (D 4468)

Sep 11, 2012, 1:11 AM
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Re: [eric.fradet] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

If the rod section can be built instead with a short section of double surface, then most of the weight and bulk advantages might be gained.

A main canopy with half the bulk (and cheaper to make since there is a lot less fabric!) sounds great, bring it on!


piisfish

Sep 11, 2012, 3:54 AM
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Re: [eric.fradet] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

video of the Ozone glider mentionned by Eric :
http://vimeo.com/29247558


bofh  (D 13995)

Sep 12, 2012, 12:12 AM
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Re: [bravoniner] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is another one.

http://www.laboratoridenvol.com/projects/bhl/bhl.html


vitriol  (C License)

Sep 15, 2012, 11:54 AM
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Re: [bravoniner] Single-surface canopies? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just found this link to what seems like a single surface BASE canopy.

http://video.mail.ru/...boyz/_myvideo/2.html

I am really interested in the subject.

Rigs could be much much smaller with a lower profile. Much lighter and comfortable. Nice for travelling too.

Cost would be more reasonable as the fabric quantity is much reduced, as is the complexity of the sewing.

For paragliding the possibility of having your wing in your trekking backpack is nice. Climb a mountain over a few days, then fly down Smile

No sand in the cells when you fly on sand dunes.

If they are safe and they have no real disadvantages, I'd be interested to buy one.



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