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Government ordered drug testing in New Zealand

 


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Sep 1, 2012, 1:24 PM
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Government ordered drug testing in New Zealand Can't Post

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/...mp;objectid=10831066

Probably be a few openings nationwide in the next few months.


(This post was edited by Andrewwhyte on Sep 1, 2012, 1:25 PM)


Amazon  (D License)

Sep 1, 2012, 1:44 PM
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I wonder if that would detect nanothermite


obelixtim  (D 84)

Sep 1, 2012, 3:25 PM
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 Some operators have had drug testing in place for 10 years or more. Its not a big deal.

THC can be detected for up to two months after use, it doesn't mean people are jumping stoned.

If any of our staff members show up a bit worse for wear after a hard night, we would send them home. In fact they are told not to show up if they are hung over. They understand that, and it doesn't cause any problems.

If they can't control their intake, they earn less money.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Sep 1, 2012, 3:50 PM
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In reply to:

THC can be detected for up to two months after use, it doesn't mean people are jumping stoned.
I just wonder if the government involvement will lead to more stringent responses to trace positives. I work in the oil patch where trace positives are automatic dismissal.


jshiloh

Sep 1, 2012, 6:41 PM
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THC can be detected for up to two months after use, it doesn't mean people are jumping stoned.

Depends on the test used & the individual. Hair tests can actually detect THC for up to 6 months, dependind on the hair. Even tests using forearm hair can detect usage within the last 3 months. OTOH, blood tests only detect usage within 24 hours or so...and if it's active in your blood, you're "under the influence" whether you feel stoned or not.

In reply to:
If any of our staff members show up a bit worse for wear after a hard night, we would send them home. In fact they are told not to show up if they are hung over. They understand that, and it doesn't cause any problems.

That's a great policy. One which more DZs need to follow. However, more commonly, when staff show up hungover it's from a DZ sponsored party the night before and viewed as "no big deal." I personally know of one DZ where it is not uncommon for instructors (including the DZO) to throw back a few beers while on the job. One of the many reasons I avoid that place like the plague. Too many DZs take the attitude that unless the person is staggering drunk, it's all ok...even funny.


SkyPiggie  (D License)

Sep 2, 2012, 6:35 AM
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In fact they are told not to show up if they are hung over. They understand that, and it doesn't cause any problems.

I would think the problem it would create is that you would be short of staff for the day. And if you have a lot of tandems booked, then you may not get them all jumped. And that equates to a loss of income for the drop zone and unhappy customers. You don't see all of that as a problem?


(This post was edited by SkyPiggie on Sep 2, 2012, 6:36 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 2, 2012, 7:13 AM
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I would think the problem it would create is that you would be short of staff for the day. And if you have a lot of tandems booked, then you may not get them all jumped. And that equates to a loss of income for the drop zone and unhappy customers. You don't see all of that as a problem?

Well, see that is just the problem with mandating drug testing, it only really targets cannabis users over all and hardly if ever busts those using hard drugs like, meth, LSD, H, Coke, XTC, etc. Those drugs leave the system in 24 hrs or less, unlike herbs.

So the real truth of the matter, based on 40 some years being around and watching as well as being a player in the dropzone world..... It's not the cannabis users who are not showing up to work because their all hung over. It's not the cannabis users who show up only a few hrs after closing the bar or hitting the rave or even the DZ party, reeking of booze and drag assing around looking like and smelling like, shit.

Then to top it all off, they stand around bragging all about how fucked up they were and all the stupid human tricks they did last nite, in front of the TDM's /students. Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone.

The cannabis users, went to bed at a reasonable time, got up on time, have all be up for hrs, shit, showered, shaved and been working already for the last few hours cleaning up the shit the drunks left laying around, packing the gear the drunks left unpacked because their in too big a hurry to start partying at the end of the day. The cannabis users are by far a better staff members to have around then those who drink and use real drugs.

And now with 17 states, allowing for card MMJ holders and it looks like more to follow soon, here in the States and other parts of the world that now makes for a interesting problem for some people and businesses.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Sep 2, 2012, 7:14 AM)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Sep 2, 2012, 8:20 AM
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In reply to:
In fact they are told not to show up if they are hung over. They understand that, and it doesn't cause any problems.

I would think the problem it would create is that you would be short of staff for the day. And if you have a lot of tandems booked, then you may not get them all jumped. And that equates to a loss of income for the drop zone and unhappy customers. You don't see all of that as a problem?

No, it never turned out to be a problem, we had enough TM's to fill the plane plus a couple of spares, They would rotate thru the day anyway, so they could have a coffee or sandwich, so if someone didn't show up it didn't matter. With 7 or 8 TM's, 1 missing for a day wouldn't matter.

That TM would be out of pocket for not showing up, and the other greedy TM's would happily take up the slack. It meant that they might all do another one or two jumps in the day. The jumpers were in it for the money, and they could earn good bucks.

If we were short of TM's ever, it was easy enough to organise bookings so people who were able to, were first in line the next day.

And as Strat says, it was the ones stinking of booze and tobacco, grumpy with a hangover, who are the ones you don't want around. If they persisted with that behaviour they quickly fell down the pecking order. Most of the TM's had been around long enough to be past that party till you drop stage.


DougH  (D License)

Sep 2, 2012, 9:22 AM
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THC can be detected for up to two months after use, it doesn't mean people are jumping stoned.

That doesn't matter to me. Popping hot during the season because of prior use still reflects a serious error in judgement.

I have never been a regular user of pot, but I am not some straight edge that hasn't used it ever either.

I know that any pot usage during the season or even a few months before the season could cause me to pop hot.

I would never jump impaired but the above also means that I completely abstain from any pot smoking at all during the season when I am jumping tandems, and even months before. I have had a tandem student or two offer to give me a bag of sticky icky for a tip, and although it is tempting you have to stay the course!

If you can't do that you open yourself and the DZO up to legal liability in the event of an accident. I am not willing to subject myself or the DZO to that risk.

Personal rule number 1, never to break. Never jump impaired, chemically, physically, mentally. That means no morning mimosas, no hangovers, no jumping after serious emotional event.

Personal rule number 2. Never appear to jump impaired. Nothing that will show up on a test after an accident. Nothing to make your student think that you may have had too much of something the night before.

If the legal landscape on changed I would change my position to some degree. But right now a joint the week before causes me to break rule number 2.


(This post was edited by DougH on Sep 2, 2012, 9:29 AM)


Krip  (Student)

Sep 17, 2012, 10:45 PM
Post #10 of 24 (3589 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Government ordered drug testing in New Zealand [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

THC can be detected for up to two months after use, it doesn't mean people are jumping stoned.
I just wonder if the government involvement will lead to more stringent responses to trace positives. I work in the oil patch where trace positives are automatic dismissal.

Hi Andrew

The gov't appoved BP's BS emergency response plan before they had the big blowout in the GM. BP was calling the shots not the gov't.Shocked

I would be more concerned about your employer and the testing company than the big bad wolf. There will always be a percentage of false positives and negative's. If the company serious about "hot and your out" IMO they need to be taking split samples and doing a retest on the other half yo verify the results.

R.


lopullterri  (D 20814)

Sep 25, 2012, 5:11 PM
Post #11 of 24 (3457 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] Government ordered drug testing in New Zealand [In reply to] Can't Post

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Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone.

Oh my god...sounds like you jumped where I jumped. Talk about Deja Vu...

Or, my personal favorite, when the instructor (after being woke up of the couch) is asked by the student (who can smell the booze on their breath)..."Are you OK to jump?" (not knowing that the instructor was also fucked up on E the night before, also). Ah...memories...


obelixtim  (D 84)

Sep 26, 2012, 2:32 AM
Post #12 of 24 (3388 views)
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Re: [lopullterri] Government ordered drug testing in New Zealand [In reply to] Can't Post

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Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone.

Oh my god...sounds like you jumped where I jumped. Talk about Deja Vu...

Or, my personal favorite, when the instructor (after being woke up of the couch) is asked by the student (who can smell the booze on their breath)..."Are you OK to jump?" (not knowing that the instructor was also fucked up on E the night before, also). Ah...memories...

Point of order....that is not my quote. I can swear as well as anyone, but I make a point of not using swear words on the internet.

I think you'll find that quote came from someone else.

Thanks.


stratostar  (Student)

Sep 26, 2012, 5:34 AM
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Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone.

I said it and she came back with the very type of thing I was talking about and thinking about when I posted that statement.

Quote:
when the instructor (after being woke up of the couch) is asked by the student (who can smell the booze on their breath)..."Are you OK to jump?" (not knowing that the instructor was also fucked up on E the night before, also). Ah...memories...

Yes the person or persons I was speaking of, did smell like booze and had been tripping all night on E. And this was SOP for many weekends.


AdD  (D License)

Oct 5, 2012, 12:41 PM
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Two tandem skydiving masters in the 2010 Fox Glacier accident, in which nine poeple died, had cannabis in their systems. A coroner's inquest ran for a week last month but the findings were reserved.

What exactly does that have to do with the plane crash? Can't say I miss working in the NZ skydiving environment.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Oct 21, 2012, 8:54 AM
Post #15 of 24 (3046 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Government ordered drug testing in New Zealand [In reply to] Can't Post

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Quote:
I would think the problem it would create is that you would be short of staff for the day. And if you have a lot of tandems booked, then you may not get them all jumped. And that equates to a loss of income for the drop zone and unhappy customers. You don't see all of that as a problem?

Well, see that is just the problem with mandating drug testing, it only really targets cannabis users over all and hardly if ever busts those using hard drugs like, meth, LSD, H, Coke, XTC, etc. Those drugs leave the system in 24 hrs or less, unlike herbs.

So the real truth of the matter, based on 40 some years being around and watching as well as being a player in the dropzone world..... It's not the cannabis users who are not showing up to work because their all hung over. It's not the cannabis users who show up only a few hrs after closing the bar or hitting the rave or even the DZ party, reeking of booze and drag assing around looking like and smelling like, shit.

Then to top it all off, they stand around bragging all about how fucked up they were and all the stupid human tricks they did last nite, in front of the TDM's /students. Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone.

The cannabis users, went to bed at a reasonable time, got up on time, have all be up for hrs, shit, showered, shaved and been working already for the last few hours cleaning up the shit the drunks left laying around, packing the gear the drunks left unpacked because their in too big a hurry to start partying at the end of the day. The cannabis users are by far a better staff members to have around then those who drink and use real drugs.

And now with 17 states, allowing for card MMJ holders and it looks like more to follow soon, here in the States and other parts of the world that now makes for a interesting problem for some people and businesses.

Why would it cause problems for employers? Carry a medical card doesn't give you a pass. Test dirty and your not working for me and I'm a recovering junky. You can choose to get high or you can choose to work. Seems like a pretty easy choice and personally that should be the only choice no reason to put people in jail for it. Get high don't get to work don't get to drive. That's my answer to the problem.


chutem  (A 45827)

Oct 21, 2012, 11:44 AM
Post #16 of 24 (3007 views)
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In reply to:
Quote:
I would think the problem it would create is that you would be short of staff for the day. And if you have a lot of tandems booked, then you may not get them all jumped. And that equates to a loss of income for the drop zone and unhappy customers. You don't see all of that as a problem?

Well, see that is just the problem with mandating drug testing, it only really targets cannabis users over all and hardly if ever busts those using hard drugs like, meth, LSD, H, Coke, XTC, etc. Those drugs leave the system in 24 hrs or less, unlike herbs.

So the real truth of the matter, based on 40 some years being around and watching as well as being a player in the dropzone world..... It's not the cannabis users who are not showing up to work because their all hung over. It's not the cannabis users who show up only a few hrs after closing the bar or hitting the rave or even the DZ party, reeking of booze and drag assing around looking like and smelling like, shit.

Then to top it all off, they stand around bragging all about how fucked up they were and all the stupid human tricks they did last nite, in front of the TDM's /students. Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone.

The cannabis users, went to bed at a reasonable time, got up on time, have all be up for hrs, shit, showered, shaved and been working already for the last few hours cleaning up the shit the drunks left laying around, packing the gear the drunks left unpacked because their in too big a hurry to start partying at the end of the day. The cannabis users are by far a better staff members to have around then those who drink and use real drugs.

And now with 17 states, allowing for card MMJ holders and it looks like more to follow soon, here in the States and other parts of the world that now makes for a interesting problem for some people and businesses.

Why would it cause problems for employers? Carry a medical card doesn't give you a pass. Test dirty and your not working for me and I'm a recovering junky. You can choose to get high or you can choose to work. Seems like a pretty easy choice and personally that should be the only choice no reason to put people in jail for it. Get high don't get to work don't get to drive. That's my answer to the problem.

This would not be legal in some states that have anti discrimination rules written into their MMJ laws.
Tandem guys would be easy though, just report them to the FAA for using MMJ and they would lose their medical.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

Oct 21, 2012, 12:57 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
I would think the problem it would create is that you would be short of staff for the day. And if you have a lot of tandems booked, then you may not get them all jumped. And that equates to a loss of income for the drop zone and unhappy customers. You don't see all of that as a problem?

Well, see that is just the problem with mandating drug testing, it only really targets cannabis users over all and hardly if ever busts those using hard drugs like, meth, LSD, H, Coke, XTC, etc. Those drugs leave the system in 24 hrs or less, unlike herbs.

So the real truth of the matter, based on 40 some years being around and watching as well as being a player in the dropzone world..... It's not the cannabis users who are not showing up to work because their all hung over. It's not the cannabis users who show up only a few hrs after closing the bar or hitting the rave or even the DZ party, reeking of booze and drag assing around looking like and smelling like, shit.

Then to top it all off, they stand around bragging all about how fucked up they were and all the stupid human tricks they did last nite, in front of the TDM's /students. Or in some cases have to be woke the fuck up off a dz couch in the main office area in front of everyone.

The cannabis users, went to bed at a reasonable time, got up on time, have all be up for hrs, shit, showered, shaved and been working already for the last few hours cleaning up the shit the drunks left laying around, packing the gear the drunks left unpacked because their in too big a hurry to start partying at the end of the day. The cannabis users are by far a better staff members to have around then those who drink and use real drugs.

And now with 17 states, allowing for card MMJ holders and it looks like more to follow soon, here in the States and other parts of the world that now makes for a interesting problem for some people and businesses.

Why would it cause problems for employers? Carry a medical card doesn't give you a pass. Test dirty and your not working for me and I'm a recovering junky. You can choose to get high or you can choose to work. Seems like a pretty easy choice and personally that should be the only choice no reason to put people in jail for it. Get high don't get to work don't get to drive. That's my answer to the problem.

This would not be legal in some states that have anti discrimination rules written into their MMJ laws.
Tandem guys would be easy though, just report them to the FAA for using MMJ and they would lose their medical.
im pretty sure there is absolutely no protection for anyone using Dope when it is a requirement to be drug free especially in any field that is dangerous and or people's lives are at stake. Could be wrong the communist republic of califuckedup might have something retarded like that.


(This post was edited by catfishhunter on Oct 21, 2012, 12:58 PM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Oct 21, 2012, 5:36 PM
Post #18 of 24 (2925 views)
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This would not be legal in some states that have anti discrimination rules written into their MMJ laws.
Tandem guys would be easy though, just report them to the FAA for using MMJ and they would lose their medical.
im pretty sure there is absolutely no protection for anyone using Dope when it is a requirement to be drug free especially in any field that is dangerous and or people's lives are at stake. Could be wrong the communist republic of califuckedup might have something retarded like that.
An MMJ card doesn't protect you from losing your job if you piss positive on a dropzone. DZ policy makes that determination.


chutem  (A 45827)

Oct 22, 2012, 8:33 AM
Post #19 of 24 (2820 views)
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In reply to:
This would not be legal in some states that have anti discrimination rules written into their MMJ laws.
Tandem guys would be easy though, just report them to the FAA for using MMJ and they would lose their medical.
im pretty sure there is absolutely no protection for anyone using Dope when it is a requirement to be drug free especially in any field that is dangerous and or people's lives are at stake. Could be wrong the communist republic of califuckedup might have something retarded like that.

An MMJ card doesn't protect you from losing your job if you piss positive on a dropzone. DZ policy makes that determination.
36-2813. Discrimination prohibited


(Caution: 1998 Prop. 105 applies)


A. No school or landlord may refuse to enroll or lease to and may not otherwise penalize a person solely for his status as a cardholder, unless failing to do so would cause the school or landlord to lose a monetary or licensing related benefit under federal law or regulations.

B. Unless a failure to do so would cause an employer to lose a monetary or licensing related benefit under federal law or regulations, an employer may not discriminate against a person in hiring, termination or imposing any term or condition of employment or otherwise penalize a person based upon either:

1. The person's status as a cardholder.

2. A registered qualifying patient's positive drug test for marijuana components or metabolites, unless the patient used, possessed or was impaired by marijuana on the premises of the place of employment or during the hours of employment.

C. For the purposes of medical care, including organ transplants, a registered qualifying patient's authorized use of marijuana must be considered the equivalent of the use of any other medication under the direction of a physician and does not constitute the use of an illicit substance or otherwise disqualify a registered qualifying patient from medical care.

D. No person may be denied custody of or visitation or parenting time with a minor, and there is no presumption of neglect or child endangerment for conduct allowed under this chapter, unless the person's behavior creates an unreasonable danger to the safety of the minor as established by clear and convincing evidence.

This is not from California's law.

B would allow the firing of pilots and TMs. I'm not sure you could fire other employees and get away with it.

As an employer in this state I'll be curious to see how this plays out when run through the courts.


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 22, 2012, 8:55 AM
Post #20 of 24 (2812 views)
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B would allow the firing of pilots and TMs. I'm not sure you could fire other employees and get away with it.

As an employer in this state I'll be curious to see how this plays out when run through the courts.

I would think if pilots and TM's are at stake, so are riggers and packers.

That leaves vidiots, AFF-Is and coaches... and I could probably argue a vaild point against the AFF-Is...


chutem  (A 45827)

Oct 22, 2012, 9:29 AM
Post #21 of 24 (2799 views)
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In reply to:
B would allow the firing of pilots and TMs. I'm not sure you could fire other employees and get away with it.

As an employer in this state I'll be curious to see how this plays out when run through the courts.

I would think if pilots and TM's are at stake, so are riggers and packers.

That leaves vidiots, AFF-Is and coaches... and I could probably argue a vaild point against the AFF-Is...

B would certainly apply to pilots, I may be stretching it to apply to TMs. I'm not familiar with how this would apply to riggers and packers. How would you argue it with AFF-Is?

Please remember I'm not saying any of this is in any way OK. I'm just looking at the law as written.


theonlyski  (D License)

Oct 22, 2012, 10:09 AM
Post #22 of 24 (2783 views)
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B would certainly apply to pilots, I may be stretching it to apply to TMs. I'm not familiar with how this would apply to riggers and packers. How would you argue it with AFF-Is?

Please remember I'm not saying any of this is in any way OK. I'm just looking at the law as written.

Would you want someone who was possibly impaired teaching a person life saving skills that they will encounter possibly later that day? How about someone who was possibly impaired and with a student that has now gotten away from them, on their back, spinning at 5k? There's not much time to be sluggish.

I know that it is the responsibility of the student to save their life, but it is the responsibility of the instructor to make sure that student is capable of doing so.

If the instructor was under the influence (and maybe even just barely) and something happened to the student that resulted in an investigation, who do you think a jury would side with?


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Oct 22, 2012, 10:09 AM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Oct 22, 2012, 11:38 AM
Post #23 of 24 (2764 views)
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I'm not a lawyer and you're not the first to point to the law. It's not a secret that a couple SoCal DZ's released a large number of staff last year for positive tests. At least two of those let go had MMJ cards at the time. I don't know the particulars, I just know that tandem/AFF staff were released.


chutem  (A 45827)

Oct 22, 2012, 5:36 PM
Post #24 of 24 (2717 views)
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In reply to:
B would certainly apply to pilots, I may be stretching it to apply to TMs. I'm not familiar with how this would apply to riggers and packers. How would you argue it with AFF-Is?

Please remember I'm not saying any of this is in any way OK. I'm just looking at the law as written.

Would you want someone who was possibly impaired teaching a person life saving skills that they will encounter possibly later that day? How about someone who was possibly impaired and with a student that has now gotten away from them, on their back, spinning at 5k? There's not much time to be sluggish.

I know that it is the responsibility of the student to save their life, but it is the responsibility of the instructor to make sure that student is capable of doing so.

If the instructor was under the influence (and maybe even just barely) and something happened to the student that resulted in an investigation, who do you think a jury would side with?

You ask questions I thought I answered in the post you responded to, I'm not advocating for MMJ card holders to work on dropzones. If I owned a drop zone I would hope the law would clearly allow me to protect my assets by not hiring MMJ card holders. I'm not sure that is the case here.



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