Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Racer sport rig

 


KollegeKay  (A 253904)

Aug 16, 2012, 9:00 PM
Post #1 of 18 (1491 views)
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Racer sport rig Can't Post

Recently I have been offered to purchase a Racer sport rig with everything except the main. I mentioned it to the rigger where I packed and he just cringed. I've been told to STAY AWAY.

Why?


airtwardo  (D License)

Aug 16, 2012, 9:03 PM
Post #2 of 18 (1475 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Find a better rigger...Wink


KollegeKay  (A 253904)

Aug 16, 2012, 9:13 PM
Post #3 of 18 (1468 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Ha ha... I think that is funny, actually. I will ask another rigger then for a second opinion. Smile


stratostar  (Student)

Aug 16, 2012, 9:26 PM
Post #4 of 18 (1463 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

How about asking that rigger why and not us? As was said, find another rigger, unless were talking about a 1970's or some other vintage gear time frame, as the reason they told you that. Not that there is anything wrong with vintage, when it's in the right hands.

IMHO it's as simple as you found one of those cry baby pussy riggers who is scared of a little work because it has two pins and not one on the reserve.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Aug 16, 2012, 9:26 PM)


KollegeKay  (A 253904)

Aug 16, 2012, 9:28 PM
Post #5 of 18 (1459 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

I did ask him why... he said he would not even touch it. He said the reserves pack funny and I would need to find another rigger if I bought it. He would not go into detail at all, just blew it off.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Aug 16, 2012, 9:58 PM
Post #6 of 18 (1451 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I did ask him why... he said he would not even touch it. He said the reserves pack funny and I would need to find another rigger if I bought it. He would not go into detail at all, just blew it off

The Racer is an 'unconventional' design. The reserve PC is outside of the container, and it takes two pins to hold is shut (and those pins are on the backpad, not the outside of the container).

Newer Racers are better (much better) than older Racers. Anthing more than 5 or 6 years old is getting old for a Racer. Not that they don't last a long time, just that they got some revisions around then that are 'good to have'.

The RSL is a trouble spot. The double-sided RSL is a bad idea, and bad enough that you can get a single-sided RSL fitted if you want.

Overall, it might be easier to buy a different rig. If you had a rigger who was helping you with buying a Racer, and knew what to look for and how to make sure you got a 'good' one that will fit your needs, and would be there to help you take care of it, that would be one thing. Without a rigger on your side, and with your limited personal knowledge, maybe steer clear.

'Mainstream' rigs like Vectors, Javelins, Infinity, Wings, Mirage (and to a lesser extent, Talon, Dolphin, Quasar) would be better choices. You have a better chance of finding a rigger to pack them if you cutaway while on vacation, a better chance of that rigger having handles or freebags in stock for said rig, and a better chance of selling it when you're done.

That said, I put a couple thousand jumps on Racers, and had no complaints the entire time. Of course, I came from a 'Racer DZ' where they knew about Racers (and used them for students and tandems) and the one I primarily jumped wasn't exactly 'stock'. Good product, solidly built, but there are just better options these days.


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 16, 2012, 10:34 PM
Post #7 of 18 (1443 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Riggers that are experienced with Racers will likely say that Racers are among the easiest to pack.

You should find a rigger that is very comfortable packing them. Make sure it is a rigger that not only agrees to do it, but welcomes it. That should not be difficult at a major skydiving center like CSC. Consulting with such a rigger before you buy/pay for a used Racer would be wise.


ctrph8  (D License)

Aug 16, 2012, 11:11 PM
Post #8 of 18 (1436 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Definitely find a better rigger.

More than that though, see if you can put a couple of jumps on the rig. If it fits and the gear is appropriate for you size wise, this could be a good thing. Go play with it before you make any decisions.

There are plenty of riggers out there who will talk with you objectively about your gear questions. If you are not getting real answers, that's a clue.

Talk with the last rigger who packed it. They were the last person to inspect the gear and can talk with you about the general condition of it.






In reply to:
Recently I have been offered to purchase a Racer sport rig with everything except the main. I mentioned it to the rigger where I packed and he just cringed. I've been told to STAY AWAY.

Why?


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
Aug 17, 2012, 6:37 AM
Post #9 of 18 (1373 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Ditto on finding abetted rigger. Racers are not hard to pack if you have ever bothered to learn how. And the reserves open very fast.

There is nothing wrong with racers other than you may have to put up with ignorant people talking smack.


gowlerk  (C 3196)

Aug 17, 2012, 7:54 AM
Post #10 of 18 (1351 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll try to explain this from a rigger's perspective. That is a rigger like me who would also not be able to pack it. In Canada, two pin containers are a separate rating, which I don't hold, so I could not pack it. If you don't know how to do it, they are difficult.

I could get trained up, but there are no Racers left on our DZ so it is not worth my trouble to learn. That being said, they were once very common with a mostly excellent reputation for comfort and very fast reserve openings. They do have a reputation for being harder to pack, but most riggers with experience on them would disagree.

There are a couple of reasons why you might want to stay away. One is that you will need a two cutter AAD for it, an unwanted extra expense. Another is resale value, which is very low due to lack of demand. And you could also research the already mentioned RSL controversy, which has two sides. (you will find a pun here if you look into it)

All in all, if after you check it out you decide you want it, you should easily be able to find a rigger who will be glad to pack it. Assuming it's airworthy.

Ken


peregrinerose  (D 28983)

Aug 17, 2012, 7:55 AM
Post #11 of 18 (1350 views)
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Re: [faulknerwn] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ditto on finding abetted rigger. Racers are not hard to pack if you have ever bothered to learn how. And the reserves open very fast.

There is nothing wrong with racers other than you may have to put up with ignorant people talking smack.

Ditto this. Racers are a lot easier to pack than many other containers. My first rig was a racer, and it was my only reserve ride, no problems. I am my own rigger, so that made the rigging thing easy Smile


irishrigger  (D 297)

Aug 17, 2012, 8:17 AM
Post #12 of 18 (1333 views)
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Re: [peregrinerose] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

the racer is an ok. i would also asume that your rigger might have an issue to repack the reserve. it can be very hard and difficult to properly seat the reserve pilot chute tidely,thats where most people have an issue with the racer. however there is a few tricks one needs to know to get it done right. its not hard when you follow the manual.
and i would not give your rigger a hard time about, he or she is not comfetable packing a racer well fair play for letting you know that, a lot of riggers would try to do it and it would look like a horrible mess. i am not sure where you are based and again your rigger might be the only one in your area,so in that case it could be good advise as you might have issues in the future getting it repacked.

good luck in making that decision

cherrio

rodger


fcajump  (D 15598)

Aug 17, 2012, 8:19 AM
Post #13 of 18 (1329 views)
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Re: [KollegeKay] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Long time rigger (11 years), first time Racer owner...

They pack very different. They have some quirks (like the RSL) that you should learn/understand if you are going to own the rig. As you've already learned, due to their differences, some riggers welcome them while others won't touch them. If you get one, find a rigger that knows and welcomes them. Even if its further/more money, it'll be worth it to work with someone who is in their comfort zone when it comes to working with your last chance.

I got one specifically to learn about the differences. I will say its very comfortable (but then so is the Jav Ody I borrow from a friend).

No MARD system available.

As someone said, around 2003 there were some design changes, so consider that when you are evaluating the rig.

Good luck / Blue Skies,
JW


JohnSherman  (D 2105)

Aug 17, 2012, 9:44 AM
Post #14 of 18 (1284 views)
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Re: [fcajump] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Just for the record.

Quote:
No MARD system available.

The Racer doesn't need a MARD. It is just as fast with its normal Racer reserve deployment.
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Le2feyqqU
We did develope one about 15 years ago but found it to be no advantage with more complexity. The MARDs were developed to catch up with the Racer.

The Classic Racer (there are 2 kinds) produced today has no real design changes from the original. At least non that I can think of. Oh yeah! we now use magnets instead of velcro to hold the SEALED riser covers closed. The Velcro was always the rap on the rig. It would wear out.

The 2K3 Racer (the other kind) is fitted with trough type riser covers. A design we had great trouble with during development as the top of the riser cover wants to hold the reserve closed when the main is full. While other manufacturers are still having trouble with this we solved the problem, but I still prefer the original Sealed covers they don't interfear with anything.

As to the caviets about the RSL. I will paraphrase one of my competitors who, when asked, said "There is nothing wrong with the Racer RSL if you will read and heed the manual." There have been less problems with the Racer RSL than the "Single Side Design" used on other rigs.


Genego  (D 10375)

Aug 17, 2012, 10:41 AM
Post #15 of 18 (1252 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Got to agree with John, the Racer is one of the easiest rigs to pack. Over the past 27 years I've owned 6 Racers. I've also owned a Vector, Centaurus, Javelin, and a Vector Tandem. If your rigger won't pack an airworthy Racer (his decision of course) ask him to recommend someone who is comfortable with the Racer. I did have the benefit of learning to pack the Racer from John at a PIA conference in Muskogee OK, (which does date me as an "old" rigger). And we both worked for Chrysler!


jumpwally  (D License)

Aug 17, 2012, 10:45 AM
Post #16 of 18 (1251 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Amen to that !Cool


KollegeKay  (A 253904)

Aug 17, 2012, 12:09 PM
Post #17 of 18 (1226 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you all for the information. Smile


airdvr  (D 10977)

Aug 21, 2012, 9:53 AM
Post #18 of 18 (1064 views)
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Re: [JohnSherman] Racer sport rig [In reply to] Can't Post

I always chuckle when someone bashes Racers.



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