Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued

 

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gregpso  (Student)

Jul 17, 2012, 11:33 PM
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Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued Can't Post

Message I got from Bill Booth (since my skydive career was trashed at Naggas) by my support for skyhooks (among other things and stupidity on my part) thought it was worth sharing with you

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Gregpso:

I'm amazed that this attitude exists in Australia, although the same thing happened when I introduced the hand deployed pilot chute and the 3 ring release. The Skyhook has been out for ten years, and is installed on over 15,000 rigs (Vector,Javelin, and Icon). In that time millions of jumps have been made on skyhook equipped rigs. Right now, over 80% of our customers order Skyhooks. It is required on all student and tandem rigs. Every gear manufacturer in the world is already using the Skyhook or desperately trying to come up with something like it. The people who dislike the Skyhook are probably still jumping single sided RSL's, which have killed lots of jumpers. Please read the comment pages on our website to see how many people believe the Skyhook has saved their life.

My GM, Mark Procos will be traveling to Australia later this year to try and figure out where this attitude came from. In the meantime, thanks for asking the right questions. You will get the last laugh.

Bill Booth


Re me getting the last laugh I doubt it I should have kept my mouth shut but there you have it.

Cheers Greg W


(This post was edited by gregpso on Jul 17, 2012, 11:33 PM)


feuergnom  (D License)

Jul 17, 2012, 11:51 PM
Post #2 of 47 (4197 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

and there are still knowledgable people out there, who do not like the idea of a MARD-system of any build (see the threads floating around here), no matter what bill booth says and no matter how many people buy the stuff


gregpso  (Student)

Jul 18, 2012, 1:05 AM
Post #3 of 47 (4169 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeas I know just showing what got me started on the skyhooks thing that led to my downfall. amongst other things. More files from the Greg PSO files coming


gregpso  (Student)

Jul 18, 2012, 1:07 AM
Post #4 of 47 (4166 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

more files from the gregpso tapes

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Gregpso;

First, I'm glad he knows what happened in the North Carolina tandem accident, because I don't, and I personally investigated it. What I know for sure is that the TM went low and the AAD fired while his main was deploying. I'm not sure that the Skyhook was even hooked up because the red Skyhook lanyard was MISSING. What your friend is talking about is the Collins' Lanyard, not the Skyhook itself. The Collins' Lanyard connects the right (RSL side) riser to the cutaway cable of the left riser, so that if the right (RSL) riser goes first for any reason, the reserve container will not be opened without the left (non-RSL) riser also being released. This is to prevent a the deploying reserve from entangling with the still attached (by the left riser) main canopy. I developed the Collins' Lanyard in response to fatalities caused by such one-sided releases. Very few people argue that "standard" RSL's don't save lives, but this one-side release problem is a major design flaw and the resason that I don't sell them without the Collins' Lanyard. The Skyhook is an entirely different system.

In the North Carolina accident, it is possible that the TM accidentally snagged the Collins' Lanyard while trying to reel in the trailing reserve pilot chute, but the cutaway handle was also pulled. This could have also happened in the confusion resulting from the potential two-out situation. So the first "cause" was the TM going low. The second "cause" was the AAD firing. (No AAD, no accident. Does this make AAD's unsafe?) The third "cause" may or may not have been the Collins's Lanyard. Hardly an inditement of the Skyhook.

As to whether Skyhooks save lives: I developed the Skyhook in direct response to two tandem fatalities cause by the tandem pair tumbling through the deploying reserve lines after cutting away. By getting the reserve to line stretch in 1/2 a second, the Skyhook prevents this. I have talked to several TM's who have made cutaways with and without the Skyhook who tell me that they would give up tandem jumping if the Skyhook were removed. In other words, there have been many instances where people have died, that the Skyhook probably would have saved them. All of my inventions have been in response to jumper being injured or killed because of then existing technology.

While it is easy to prove that someone is dead, it is much harder to prove that someone was saved. However, we get emails all the time from people who thank us for saving their lives with the Skyhook. Some of these are posted on our web site.

As to only people who do stupid things needing Skyhooks, the same could be said for AAD's, and who would argue that AAD's don't save lives?

Jumpers who have been around for a long time very often reject new technology because that are used to what they have been jumping their whole lives. The resistance to piggyback containers, and square parachutes, especially as reserves, was fierce. So was the resistance to hand deployed pilot chutes and the 3-ring release. And some people actually called Ted Strong and me MURDERERS for developing tandem jumping.

By the way, the Skyhook has had FAR FEWER PROBLEMS than the piggyback, the square parachute, the hand deployed main pilot chute, the 3-ring, or tandem jumping, and resistance to it is getting less every day.

Bill

unquote


gregpso  (Student)

Jul 18, 2012, 1:19 AM
Post #5 of 47 (4160 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

So with correspondence like that from the" father of skydiving " I became so obsessed (with skyhooks) I trashed my relationship with an outstanding CI and crew at Naggas My fault


Not justifying.. just explaining the beginning of the end of me at Nagambie Skydive in Australia. as a few have emailed me with why... now you know !!

just noting Strong are developing or developed the "sky anchor"


(This post was edited by gregpso on Jul 18, 2012, 1:32 AM)


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Jul 18, 2012, 1:59 AM
Post #6 of 47 (4139 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Is there a way I can read some of the stuff you posted on Australian forums that managed to piss off every single skydiver in Australia?


gregpso  (Student)

Jul 18, 2012, 2:14 AM
Post #7 of 47 (4132 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

join skysurfer.com.au look at posts from gregdemon there you will read some dumb post from a bloke(aussie slang for a man) who started off trying to be a bit entertaining but ended up self destructing and ruining a relationship with people (Don louise and crew) whom I really liked and respected (still do !!)

or in simple language a true dickhead and fuckstik in action (me)

I have met some jumpers on the forum who said to me "they were surprised what I was like in real life not at all like the horrible gregdemon."

In reality I have no wish to offend anyone (I would rather be friends) but I sure did offend to the max.... and for that I will apologise again. and again if you wish.


A lesson in what not to do !!

Bit strong "every skydiver in Australia" as the aussie forum really has only about 30 or so regular contributors but of course.. word gets around.

I did have some tell me I was entertaining for a while. but where did that get me.. nowhere !!

I suppose no chance of bygones being bygones (I didn"t think so)


(This post was edited by gregpso on Jul 18, 2012, 2:51 AM)


DougH  (D License)

Jul 18, 2012, 4:33 AM
Post #8 of 47 (4071 views)
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It is the interweb, who give a shit! What is wrong with you people.

I am sure if you showed up with beer they would look past your fuckstick internet persona.

Bring me beer and I will jump with you, but I may require you to wear a bag on your head.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Jul 18, 2012, 6:47 AM
Post #9 of 47 (3995 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Meta: Is there some pressing reason this neverending, ludicrous car crash has been allowed to spill over into S&T now?


JohnRich  (D License)

Jul 18, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #10 of 47 (3896 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeas I know just showing what got me started on the skyhooks thing that led to my downfall. amongst other things. More files from the Greg PSO files coming

Why didn't you just continue your student training as-is, and then when you graduate and purchase your own rig, buy it with a Skyhook?


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Jul 18, 2012, 9:28 AM)


J-S  (C License)

Jul 18, 2012, 11:28 AM
Post #11 of 47 (3824 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Instead of trying to continue your argument about skyhooks (I think the thing you kept harping on with your instructors) by trying to use what Mr. Booth wrote you as a way to validate your argument and continued apology online, go to your dropzone and apologize in person.

You want to jump and make adult decisions up in the skies, get some moxy and make an adult decision on the ground, confront your problem face to face. What's the worst that can happen?, they tell you to fuck off? You might not gain their respect still, but you can walk away like a man with some self respect. It takes a man or women to admit to another they fucked up.

Or maybe they'll see you can be an adult and make adult decisions and give you another chance. Apologizing online is kind of immature. Beating shit around the bush is obviously getting you nothing.

No disrespect intended. Good luck!


gregpso  (Student)

Jul 18, 2012, 6:13 PM
Post #12 of 47 (3704 views)
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Re: [J-S] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Cheers good advice. I will be attending soon.(this weekend)

end of thread/post


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jul 22, 2012, 10:18 PM
Post #13 of 47 (3380 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Cheers good advice. I will be attending soon.(this weekend)

end of thread/post

I think you should start a third thread on this, but restrict it to iambic pentameter.
Or haiku. I love haiku.


beeman  (A 65979)

Jul 22, 2012, 11:06 PM
Post #14 of 47 (3361 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Cheers good advice. I will be attending soon.(this weekend)

end of thread/post

I think you should start a third thread on this, but restrict it to iambic pentameter.
Or haiku. I love haiku.

That wasn't really
Either of them was it now?
...refrigerator

EDIT: posted before I meant to. +1 to go deal with it in person and not air out dirty laundry and apologize online. and good luck Smile


(This post was edited by beeman on Jul 22, 2012, 11:13 PM)


milehigheric  (C License)

Jul 23, 2012, 2:11 AM
Post #15 of 47 (3321 views)
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Re: [beeman] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Greg...stop attempting to apologise (between sky surfer and here we would be up to 10 threads now right?) and move on. Respect takes a long time to build back, continually apologising doesn't help anything.

It doesn't really seem as if this is an apology anyway - more like a, someone is on my side screw you guys. Winning the sympathy of Bill Booth and others who only know half the story (no doubt your side) is pointless. For the record I only know half the story, but frankly I couldn't care what happened at naggs. My comments are made purely on what I see on-line and the way you conduct yourself.

Stop the games and move on mate Wink


gregpso  (Student)

Jul 25, 2012, 10:27 PM
Post #16 of 47 (3133 views)
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Re: [milehigheric] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like I have no choice BUT to move on..

The apology was sincere but AS USUAL just dug a bigger hole for myself.


(This post was edited by gregpso on Jul 25, 2012, 10:30 PM)


milehigheric  (C License)

Jul 26, 2012, 4:45 AM
Post #17 of 47 (3104 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Im not having trying to have a go mate I didn't mean it to come out that way. From a pure social standpoint I just think your going about mending the problem the wrong way. Just like high school, time will fix most things if you don't keep making a big deal of it.


dorbie

Jul 30, 2012, 2:27 PM
Post #18 of 47 (2929 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

You pissed off some people on the internet? There's a first!

BEER!


gregpso  (Student)

Aug 4, 2012, 5:50 PM
Post #19 of 47 (2765 views)
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Re: [milehigheric] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Cheers Milehigheric just went public for one last chance. didn t work... its over !!!


milehigheric  (C License)

Aug 5, 2012, 1:13 PM
Post #20 of 47 (2689 views)
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Re: [gregpso] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

Its not over, as if you would stop jumping over a little fallout. As I said, time will fix things Im sure...maybe approach them in 6 months or something with a carton, beer always seems to help. Just keep it out of the public domain is all im saying, it's a private issue just sort it out.

Tongue


Skyrad  (B License)

Aug 8, 2012, 2:08 AM
Post #21 of 47 (2509 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Cheers good advice. I will be attending soon.(this weekend)

end of thread/post

I think you should start a third thread on this, but restrict it to iambic pentameter.
Or haiku. I love haiku.

LaughLaughLaughLaugh


Premier Remster  (C License)

Aug 8, 2012, 7:57 AM
Post #22 of 47 (2468 views)
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Re: [Skyrad] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Cheers good advice. I will be attending soon.(this weekend)

end of thread/post

I think you should start a third thread on this, but restrict it to iambic pentameter.
Or haiku. I love haiku.

LaughLaughLaughLaugh

You can stop digging
That hole you are in is deep
I'm out of pop corn


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Aug 8, 2012, 2:12 PM
Post #23 of 47 (2402 views)
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Re: [Remster] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

I remain nonplussed
This ridiculous saga
Does not belong here


ouch

Aug 8, 2012, 4:32 PM
Post #24 of 47 (2359 views)
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Re: [Joellercoaster] Apology to Lousie and Don Naggas Continued [In reply to] Can't Post

It is a ridiculous saga. I can't believe anybody keeps fuelling his efforts at attention.

He comes across as a self-important tandem passenger who read a few things on the internet and took it upon himself to share his opinions with all and sundry.

I suspect it wasn't his skyhook opinions that caused the problem, but his obvious desire to undermine everyone else while making himself look clever.

Even now, he claims its a heartfelt apology, but he really just wants people to think he's right.

Ignore him.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Aug 9, 2012, 12:38 AM
Post #25 of 47 (2306 views)
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You are quite correct
Attention is oxygen
I just like haiku


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