Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use?

 

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degeneration  (C 106811)

Jul 31, 2012, 3:09 AM
Post #1 of 31 (2259 views)
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Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? Can't Post

I bought a Speed reserve a while back, and am getting closer to being able to assemble it into my container (thanks for the 2.5 month Cypres service Airtec...)

Anyway, I've now noticed that it did not come with any links... so I need to get new ones.

What would be the correct link to use with a Speed reserve?

Thanks.


Luck  (D License)

Jul 31, 2012, 3:51 AM
Post #2 of 31 (2202 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

Soft links for reserves:
Slinks: PD SOFT LINK RESERVE

http://www.wingstore.aero/...yp-sr-1-reserve.html


(This post was edited by Luck on Jul 31, 2012, 3:52 AM)


piisfish

Jul 31, 2012, 4:06 AM
Post #3 of 31 (2191 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

your rigger will know, or you will, with the help of the user's manual.
PD reserve Slinks are not always the good answer.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Jul 31, 2012, 4:51 AM
Post #4 of 31 (2179 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd read through the user manual and it only mentions links in saying make sure they are fastened tight.

That says that it is metal hard links that are used, but I was unsure whether soft links could be used as well, but this might not have been updated in their manual.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 31, 2012, 5:23 AM
Post #5 of 31 (2155 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
PD reserve Slinks are not always the good answer.

Why is that?


piisfish

Jul 31, 2012, 5:30 AM
Post #6 of 31 (2150 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

My first answer would be a NO PD Slinks, but I sent them a message to ask if it is authorised by them or not.
Unless specifically offered as an option/alternative, the answer would be NO


piisfish

Jul 31, 2012, 5:45 AM
Post #7 of 31 (2143 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
PD reserve Slinks are not always the good answer.

Why is that?
why ? because the links have to be tested and approved by the reserve manufacturer don't they ?
Some manufacturers do specify that the use of soft links of any kind is not approved with the use of their reserves.
If the manufacturer says NO, who are we as users/riggers to say the contrary ?


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 31, 2012, 5:49 AM
Post #8 of 31 (2141 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
PD reserve Slinks are not always the good answer.

Why is that?
why ? because the links have to be tested and approved by the reserve manufacturer don't they ?
Some manufacturers do specify that the use of soft links of any kind is not approved with the use of their reserves.
If the manufacturer says NO, who are we as users/riggers to say the contrary ?

I am aware of all that.

I thought your comment that soft links are "not always the good answer" was for a reason other than manufacturers requirements.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 31, 2012, 7:19 AM
Post #9 of 31 (2097 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Some manufacturers do specify that the use of soft links of any kind is not approved with the use of their reserves.

Do you have examples of that?
(I don't recall any off hand, but that's why I'm asking.)

The Speed manual (latest = 2009) says nothing pro or con any sort of soft links. It only mentions that regarding the links, one should "assure the barrel nuts are tight". Only if you are ridiculously strict in interpreting manufacturer's rules, would you conclude that any links without barrel nuts are prohibited.

It is as if a container manual's chapter on packing the main parachute stated, "Remember to cock your pilot chute!", and thus you conclude that non-collapsible pilot chutes are prohibited on that rig.


piisfish

Jul 31, 2012, 7:30 AM
Post #10 of 31 (2090 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

IIRC Icarus does not approve the use of soft links on their reserves, bbut I could be wrong.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 31, 2012, 7:54 AM
Post #11 of 31 (2077 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

The thought was interesting, so I looked it up. The Icarus reserve manual assumes metal links, and the reserve comes with them, but says alternatives are OK as long as certified to TSO C23d to at least the opening force listed for the reserve. ("Average peak force" as noted in AS 8015 rev B or whatever is current)

Aerodyne lists C23d certification for their reserve soft links for example. For PD Reserve Slinks I don't see the info online but the paper that comes with the slinks mentions C23d certification.

So soft links should be fine.


The only quibble would be that either way, I don't see any maximum certified load listed for the either of the above-mentioned reserve soft links. While they are designed to be at least as strong as the typical metal links used, and probably won't be certified to C23d unless that were so, technically if you don't have that number on hand, you couldn't assemble them to any C23d canopy because you wouldn't know for sure that the soft links are certified to higher than the reserve forces.

But that's not as much in the realm of day to day rigging as an awkward little issue in the way the whole certification system in the industry works.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 31, 2012, 8:07 AM
Post #12 of 31 (2068 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
PD reserve Slinks are not always the good answer.

Why is that?

It is probably not the reason that piifish had in mind, but I believe that some reserves have lines with not enough room in the "eyelet" for PD reserve slinks, but reserve links from another mfg will fit. Of course I could be wrong.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Jul 31, 2012, 9:25 AM
Post #13 of 31 (2036 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

So, if I avoid the soft link issue and go for rapide links, are there specific rapide links that must be used with reserves?

What thickness should the metal be?

I've found varying prices for different 5mm rapide links when looking around - some 4+ each, others 1.50 each.

Or, to put it a different way - which, if any, of the links on this page would be suitable for a reserve?

http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/...on_rapide_links.html


(This post was edited by degeneration on Jul 31, 2012, 9:27 AM)


Deyan  (D 322)

Jul 31, 2012, 10:33 AM
Post #14 of 31 (2007 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What would be the correct link to use with a Speed reserve?

Thanks.

There's only one correct answer on this question. You ( your rigger ) should use only links provided by the manufacturer. Paratec is the TSO holder and only they can supply you TSO components for that reserve.

( Please don't ask me How can you tell if the links are "the original ones", because I don't know. They all come from the same manufacturer )

With all that said, Speed 2000 comes out of the box with INOX Maillon rapid links # 5.

As for the use of PD reserve S-links on the Speed, my information is that Paratec does not authorize the use of S-links because :
A: the reserve was never tested with them
and
B: they ( Paratec ) have no control over the QC at PD.

note: this info is one year old.


mark  (D 6108)

Jul 31, 2012, 10:45 AM
Post #15 of 31 (2004 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As for the use of PD reserve S-links on the Speed, my information is that Paratec does not authorize the use of S-links because :
A: <snip>
and
B: they (Paratec) have no control over the QC at PD.

Paratec has no control over QC at Mirage, UPT, Jump Shack, etc. Are they saying their Speed reserve may be used only in Paratec harness/container systems?

Mark


Deyan  (D 322)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:08 AM
Post #16 of 31 (1993 views)
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Re: [mark] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Paratec has no control over QC at Mirage, UPT, Jump Shack, etc.
Mark


True!
However, as you know the links are part of the canopy and it's the TSO's holder decision what may or may not be used.


sundevil777  (D License)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:13 AM
Post #17 of 31 (1990 views)
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Re: [Deyan] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Paratec has no control over QC at Mirage, UPT, Jump Shack, etc.
Mark


True!
However, as you know the links are part of the canopy and it's the TSO's holder decision what may or may not be used.

I thought we have been here before, and that in the US, riggers are allowed to use "compatible components" and all that...they are licensed to make such decisions. Using a TSOd link fits clearly into that category, right?


Electronaut  (C 38872)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:49 AM
Post #18 of 31 (1978 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

Jump Shack's Angelfire is only TSO'd for rapides.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:59 AM
Post #19 of 31 (1969 views)
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Re: [Electronaut] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Jump Shack's Angelfire is only TSO'd for rapides.

Interesting.

Reference:
The use of Soft Links on reserve parachutes in Racer Harness/Container Systems
1/19/2009
http://www.jumpshack.com/...ves&SortBy=INDEX


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jul 31, 2012, 12:38 PM
Post #20 of 31 (1952 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
which, if any, of the links on this page would be suitable for a reserve?

http://www.hitchnhike.co.uk/...on_rapide_links.html

None. Buy rapide links from a skydive store like paragear. Or better yet, from your rigger.
Your rigger can also tell you which size to get. I know there are at least 3 different size rapide links in use for skydiving, alll have their specific uses.


Skybear

Jul 31, 2012, 12:49 PM
Post #21 of 31 (1945 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

How about contacting the manufacturer (www.paratec.de)?


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jul 31, 2012, 9:01 PM
Post #22 of 31 (1868 views)
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Re: [Skybear] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How about contacting the manufacturer (www.paratec.de)?

We have a winner.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Aug 1, 2012, 2:26 AM
Post #23 of 31 (1839 views)
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Re: [BIGUN] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

I probably should have contacted paratec, but asked on here instead as I figured I would get a quicker answer.

I contacted rigging shops asking about the links and got quoted a price for them. Given my searching on google for the links found cheaper results I just wanted to know whether they would be suitable or not.

Given that the answer I was given a few posts ago was no, I'll just go with the ones from the rigging shop.

I just wanted to explore my options and get some knowledge on this sort of thing in the process.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Aug 1, 2012, 6:10 AM
Post #24 of 31 (1808 views)
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Re: [degeneration] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I contacted rigging shops asking about the links and got quoted a price for them. Given my searching on google for the links found cheaper results I just wanted to know whether they would be suitable or not.

And how much will you save? Not much.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Aug 1, 2012, 8:07 AM
Post #25 of 31 (1779 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Have a Speed reserve, but no links... what to use? [In reply to] Can't Post

The amount I would save was going to be about 60-70% on the price quoted by the rigging shop. But given that this saving is based on rapide links that I've now been told are not suitable, it is null and void now.

So I will be getting the ones from the rigging shop.


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