Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

cklow13

Jul 28, 2012, 4:26 PM
Post #1 of 39 (4861 views)
Shortcut
Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center Can't Post

To all those concerned,

I run The Jumping Place Skydiving Center in Saint Marys, GA; We were given permission as you will see in the attachments by the AAB in the city on June 5, 2006 to operate as a commercial skydiving facility. We've operated every weekend since that day until this one.

The City of Saint Marys and the Airport Authority Board sent police officers to the Municipal Airport (publicly owned property) and said anyone skydiving onto the airfield would be arrested for Criminal Trespassing. We have had a meeting with the AAB on Monday at 3:00 PM, and we will once again as we have for months attempt to sign permits and get them to stop harassing us and denying access to the airfield. We've attempted to sign their permits, (which they will not execute) and go to their meetings. I hope that this will be resolved on Monday, but I'm very doubtful as the AAB and city have mislead everyone involved into thinking they're out for the best interest of the City and they want us here. This is not the case, but we will be at the meeting Monday, willing to execute any document they provide us with in order to protect (what we thought the FAA would) our access to a federally funded airport. Rather than attempting to resolve any issues at a scheduled meeting at 3:00pm, police officers told my customers, staff, and myself they would be arrested if they skydived on public property. This is not the action of an authority or a city that wants resolutions, it is intimidation.

They've explicitly stated (as well as the police officer they brought out today) that "anyone skydiving onto the field will be arrested." We've had permission to skydive onto this field since 2006, if you cannot see this as a direct violation of Grant Assurance 22, then there is not much hope for Saint Marys or this country. They are denying skydiving (only), and any denial of general aviation without just cause is discriminatory, but if no one will protect us from their endless actions, why would they stop their actions.

I'm attaching a photo of trespassing posting at our establishment that we lease from a business on field (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7tvsEnkr4wjN1JvdGlJMlhsckE)..

I am also attaching a youtube video of the Saint Mary's Police department telling us that no skydiver can land on the field without being arrested (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a945tZH5pi0&feature=youtu.be).

I'm also including three documents in reference to the approval to operate on Saint Marys Airport for the purpose of skydiving.

-TJP Permissioin Letter pertains to Dick Russell the Authority Head in 2006 gives a statement regarding our permission to operate (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7tvsEnkr4wjcFJxemt0dkhqcnc).
-SMAA Minutes 6-5-2006 is the minutes of an AAB meeting to approve skydiving operations at Saint Marys Airport (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7tvsEnkr4wjSURMOUhRdzgzQTA).
-The email at the end is from Greg Moore a former authority member, and member during the approval time period.

Closing a viable business in these economic times is wrong, denying access to a federally funded airport to general aviation is illegal.

Thank you

--
Cathy Kloess
912 322 7282
thejumpingplace@gmail.com
203 N Dandy St.
St. Marys, GA 31558


Attach:
Email from former AAB Member Greg Moore

greg moore gaflyer_4j6@yahoo.com
Jul 19 (9 days ago)


to me, Richard, Greg
Cathy,

I am a former member of the St. Marys Airport Authority dated from April 13, 1998 to July 28, 2002, and from April 26, 2004, through a December 12, 2005 reappointment, until January 2010. Much of the time I served as the Authority Secretary, took minutes of the meeting, and submitted them to the St. Marys City Clerk.

These are my thoughts regarding The Jumping Place.

Cathy Kloess, d/b/a The Jumping Place, was allowed to operate her business in the non-exclusive areas of St. Marys Airport just as any other noncommercial or commercial (whether home-based or transient) operator allowed without discrimination. Cathy and her business are tennants of Bird Aviation hangars. The use of the nonexclusive areas of the airport was in accordance with, and persuant to the Authority Lease with Bird Aviation, reviewed and approved by then City Attorney Terry Floyd.

It is my belief that the purpose of the Airport Authority is to promote aviation use of the airport, administer land leases to home-based individuals and businesses in the best interest of the City of St. Marys, and other business as necessary to maintain the airport without regard to changing political climates.

On a personal note, I spent much of my personal time observing the operation of The Jumping Place including safety briefings, legal briefings, training operations, and a airplane ride with Cathy. I also appreciate the community service The Jumping Place provides: an example was an introduction to aviation to a local Pre-K class that included demonstrations, activities and a DVD remembrance of the event for each class member.

I wish you, The Jumping Place, and the many jumpers at St. Marys Airport the best.

Sincerely,

J. Gregory Moore

Please Feel Free to Send all the members of City council, The AAB, and all others listed below emails

"Johna Strickland" <johna@tribune-georgian.com>, "James E. Stein" <jstein1@tds.net>,
Jay Stanford <jay.j.stanford@gmail.com>,
<steve.crowell@ci.st-marys.ga.us>,
Keith Thompson <keith31558@yahoo.com>,
Greg Bird <gbird00@yahoo.com>,
City Council Saint Marys Jim Gant <Jim.Gant@stmarysga.gov>,
John Morrissey Saint Mary's City Council <John.Morrissey@stmarysga.gov>,
Keith Post Saint Marys City Council <Keith.Post@stmarysga.gov>,
Sidney Howell Saint Mary's Councilman <Sidney.Howell@stmarysga.gov>,
"Mayor William DeLoughy 12/13" <bill.deloughy@ci.st-marys.ga.us>, "Frank Drane" <frankdrane@yahoo.com>, "Frank Frasca" <carlo37@tds.net>, "Charles Evans" <cevans@dot.ga.gov>, "Chuck Garrison" <william.garrison@faa.gov>, "Sands, Carla Jo" <csands@dot.ga.gov>, "Ms. Carol Comer" <ccomer@dot.ga.gov>, kevin.willis@faa.gov, [/email][/email]

Also Feel free to call
Airport Authority Board Head Jay Stanford: 912-882-4593
AAB Attorney Jim Stein: 912-729-3635
Saint Marys Mayor: 912-510-4041



stratostar  (Student)

Jul 28, 2012, 6:10 PM
Post #2 of 39 (4763 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cklow13] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

But did you file an informal part 13 or formal part 16 compliant with the FAA ADO in your area? Without doing so your not going to get any FAA help....

On your side, just saying.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jul 28, 2012, 6:15 PM
Post #3 of 39 (4752 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cklow13] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Cathy,

I jumped there when you first opened (blue & white tie-dye rig you packed for years and was on your "first" skydiver load as a commercial pilot). I'm very sorry to hear of this and hope you can enlist the USPA's help on the matter.

Having said that, you tell us what's going on in great detail, but at the end, you don't share with us how you would like us to help?

Keith


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 28, 2012, 6:16 PM
Post #4 of 39 (4749 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cklow13] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

I am also attaching a youtube video of the Saint Mary's Police department telling us that no skydiver can land on the field without being arrested (http://www.youtube.com/...amp;feature=youtu.be).

TJP Permissioin Letter pertains to Dick Russell the Authority Head in 2006 gives a statement regarding our permission to operate (https://docs.google.com/...kr4wjcFJxemt0dkhqcnc

SMAA Minutes 6-5-2006 is the minutes of an AAB meeting to approve skydiving operations at Saint Marys Airport (https://docs.google.com/...kr4wjSURMOUhRdzgzQTA)

Quote:
made clicky for you


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 28, 2012, 6:24 PM
Post #5 of 39 (4741 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cklow13] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
TJP Permissioin Letter pertains to Dick Russell the Authority Head in 2006 gives a statement regarding our permission to operate

After review of the video of the cop serving you legal orders and or telling you skydivers no longer have permission to land there under the signed agreement for use under FAR 105.23B....

Your 105.23b has be revoked, it legal for them to do that if they like. You should request in writing the reasons why permission under 105.23b was revoked and then build your informal/formal compliant to the ADO, based on what they tell you is the reason.


jinlee  (D License)

Jul 28, 2012, 11:03 PM
Post #6 of 39 (4636 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cklow13] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I would think that on Monday you would attempt to file an emergency injunction against the City of Saint Marys and the Airport Authority Board.

It's an emergency hearing your after. Not a matter to be calendered in 4 months.

And immediately start accessing monetary damages $$$ and seeking them as part of the basis for the emergency injunction.


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 29, 2012, 7:13 AM
Post #7 of 39 (4528 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cklow13] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Kathy

can you please tell us,what reasons were listed by the city for this ban on skydivers under 105.23b? I would have asked them for a copy of the FAA's approval for the ban limit or restriction on skydiving.

Quote:
AC 105.2D sport parachuting

a. FAA-Recognized Aeronautical Activity. Sport parachuting (skydiving) continues to increase in popularity and is an FAA-recognized aeronautical activity even though parachutists are not certificated airmen. As an FAA-recognized aeronautical activity, regulations require airports that have received FAA funding to accommodate this activity unless the FAA determines that compatibility issues prohibit parachuting operations at a particular airport. See the current edition of FAA Order 5190.6B, FAA Airport Compliance Manual, appendix C, paragraph 4, and appendix C, section 1, subparagraph 1.3d.

If they are trying to claim safety reasons, then would pull up AC 150-5190-7 minimum standards, subsection F:skydiving.f.
Skydiving. Skydiving is an aeronautical activity. Any restriction, limitation, or ban on skydiving on the airport must be based on the grant assurance that provides that the airport sponsor may prohibit or limit aeronautical use for the safe operation of the airport (subject to FAA approval). The following questions present reasonable factors the sponsor might contemplate when developing minimum standards that apply to skydiving:
(1)
Will this activity present or create a safety hazard to the normal operations of aircraft arriving or departing from the airport? If so, has the local Airports District Office (ADO) or the Regional Airports Office been contacted and have those FAA offices sought the assistance from FAA Flight Standards (FS) and Air Traffic (AT) to assess whether safe airport operations would be jeopardized?
(2)
Can skydiving operations be safely accommodated at the airport? Can a drop zone be safely established within the boundaries of the airport? Is guidance in FAA AC-90-66A Recommended Standards Traffic Patterns and Practices for Aeronautical Operations at Airports Without Operating Control Towers, 14 CFR Part 105 and United States Parachute Associationĺs (USPA) Basic Safety Requirements being followed?
(3)
What reasonable time periods can be designated for jumping in a manner consistent with Part 105? What experience requirements are needed for an on-airport drop zone?
(4)
What is a reasonable fee that the jumpers and/or their organizations can pay for the privilege of using airport property?
(5)
Has the relevant air traffic control facility been advised of the proposed parachute operation? Does the air traffic control facility have concerns about the efficiency and utility of the airport and its related instrument procedures?
(6)
Will it be necessary to determine the impact of the proposed activity on the efficiency and utility of the airport, related instrument approaches or nearby Instrument Flight Rules (IFR)? If so, has FAA Air Traffic reviewed the matter and issued a finding?

(This post was edited by stratostar on Jul 29, 2012, 7:17 AM)


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jul 29, 2012, 7:22 AM
Post #8 of 39 (4517 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cklow13] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

You need to hire a good attorney. I'm sure you have spoken with Randy Ottinger at USPA. He'll point you in the right direction.

30,000 skydivers can write letters to a city or airport authority and they will just throw them away.
One good lawyer letter will make them crumble...


jinlee  (D License)

Jul 29, 2012, 9:02 AM
Post #9 of 39 (4477 views)
Shortcut
Re: [grimmie] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Not a lot of money but don't look at it as a trial case, which they all are, discovery, depositions, blah, blah, that comes later and will untimely end in settlement anyway.

A letter from a lawyer isn't always positive. In fact it will only serve as notice you've wasted your financial capital.

What is effective is getting in front of a State of Georgia Superior Court Judge seeking an injunction to cease the offending parties hostile action, until, at which time further facts can be presented. However monetary damages are occurring at present and the actions of the City of Saint Marys and the Airport Authority Board need to present a basis in front of a judge for their actions against your business. Which is settled at trial..... months and months and a year or more down the road.

A good attorney is one who does what the client requests quickly and professionally, that doesn't always mean big fees. Find an attorney, file it, get a hearing date, request an emergency hearing (another filing) showing monetary damages seeking an injunction against your defendants.

The City of Saint Marys and the Airport Authority Board, what they are doing is not illegal, it's unlawful.

I didn't watch the video but local law enforcement is somewhat stymied when a case goes from being criminal trespassing and so forth, etc. to a civil matter pending before a court.

Monetary damages are the key here. They are mounting quickly for you I'm sure.

Not knowing how long this has been going on and unless you're operation is in flagrant violation of facts not presented here. They can not legally do what they are doing.... which is shut down a commercial operation with-out a valid basis or notice, and not the notice it appears they've given you.

This is really where (I think) USPA Airport Access funding is so important.


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 29, 2012, 10:28 AM
Post #10 of 39 (4439 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jinlee] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
A letter from a lawyer isn't always positive. In fact it will only serve as notice you've wasted your financial capital.

Do you even know who Rich Grimm is and how much he knows about letters from lawyers to airport boards and city management.

Quote:
A good attorney is one who does what the client requests quickly and professionally

A good one would send the kind of letters Rich Grimm was talking about and also advise their client to contact the ADO.

Quote:
The City of Saint Marys and the Airport Authority Board, what they are doing is not illegal, it's unlawful.

and

Quote:
They can not legally do what they are doing.... which is shut down a commercial operation with-out a valid basis or notice

Who says it's not legal for them to revoke permission under FAR 105.23b for parachutes to land on the airport? Answer is it depends on the reasons why they did it.

They didn't shut down a commercial operation, they are allowed to operate the business on the airport, they just can't land parachutes there and comply with the FAR 105.23b.

Quote:
This is really where (I think) USPA Airport Access funding is so important.

Can you please provide us with more info on how this airport access funding works?


jinlee  (D License)

Jul 29, 2012, 4:19 PM
Post #11 of 39 (4359 views)
Shortcut
Re: [stratostar] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

You're well respected and been around a long time so I don't doubt what you say.

I have no reason to dispute anything you've mentioned. As a business operational policy be prepared to do both if need be.

However with law enforcement patrolling and being used as a means to intimidate. I say fight back.

Your way may work and all is well across the land, however a viable business shut down is incurring losses daily, enough to put a business out of business.

However I am not spouting off at the keyboard, I myself have had to do this. And it works and I've spoken and footed the legal bills to engage is successful business litigation. I had to argue with my own corporate counsel for 3 weeks to get an emergency hearing. And I would be classified in that matter as a difficult client. After 45 minutes in the hearing, the judge ruled in our favor, a bogus 2 million dollar counter-claim was tossed and guess what, counsel walked out all puffed up grinning at his successful presentation of facts to a State Superior court judge. The strategy was mine. That matter was settled after 17 months of inaction by the court and settled as most civil cases are. However the victory was at that 45 minute hearing.

I'm not the type of person to say sue, sue, sue, and give little respect to those who do because they have no idea how expensive it is.

Legal action is always as a last resort and to me it sounds like that point has been reached.

Saint Mary's is as remote an airport as most small DZ's get. I believe a little airport and city council fiefdom is using their resources improperly which btw are deep compared to a small skydiving operation which may not have adequate cash reserves to legally mount a challenge. (my opinion) and what you mention and I've mention may work together in tandem. However how and when does a business recoup lost operational income. The answer is, they don't.

Quote:
Can you please provide us with more info on how this airport access funding works?

Respectively no, you may have written the book and when you did you used a chisel. Tongue I didn't say works, I said important.

And this issue may involve many more pertinent facts than presented above, so I offer an opinion as requested. However from what I've gathered it sounds like the City and the airport authority are unwilling at this point to resolve anything in favor of The Jumping Place operating as they have and generating revenue as a business must.

I do know this, the City and the Airport Authority would not have been able to take action had this matter been presented to the court system. Closure would have required a court order and even in a losing matter allowed the business to execute a policy for closure.... Not COPS at the gate saying "yer all done here in our remote corner of Georgia"

Personally I'd also be cautious for not wanting to set an unsuccessful precedent negatively effecting the sport.

And as a rule in business it is so much better when their people talk to my people so when the time for the phony glad handing by involved parties has arrived past personal disagreements are able to be distanced.


(This post was edited by jinlee on Jul 29, 2012, 4:41 PM)


FreefallSnoopy

Jul 29, 2012, 9:19 PM
Post #12 of 39 (4250 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jinlee] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

I jumped today with Pack'n Cathy for my recurrency jump. 3 months of being stuck on a ship at sea dreaming (literally had dreams of skydiving) of getting to jump again and the first time out the plane is in defiance of the St. Mary's AAB unlawful actions. C'mon, that's just awesome. And what a surprise, no one came to arrest us.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jul 30, 2012, 2:15 AM
Post #13 of 39 (4190 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FreefallSnoopy] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you suppose your post is helpful?


stratostar  (Student)

Jul 30, 2012, 6:07 AM
Post #14 of 39 (4132 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jinlee] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I do know this, the City and the Airport Authority would not have been able to take action had this matter been presented to the court system. Closure would have required a court order and even in a losing matter allowed the business to execute a policy for closure.... Not COPS at the gate saying "yer all done here in our remote corner of Georgia"

I guess you don't know, based on that comment.... Try reading the Federal Aviation Regulations, starting with 105.23b! The airport sponsor is free to grant permission, usually verbal, to allow parachute landings on the airport, per FAR 105.23b.

They are also free to revoke such granted permission, and it does not require a court action! It's all within their rights under current federal funded airport contracts. Regardless of the reasons, right or wrong, if you fail to comply with FAR 105.23b (by not having permission granted) till the matter is cleared up with the FAA and you land on the airport property, it's the FAA you need to worry about and not the city/county cops. The city has told this DZO, they no longer are granting permission under 105.23b to land parachutes on the airport property, at no time in the video or in the posted signs, did I hear or read any statements of anyone (other then you) who is claiming they shut down her business.

While yes, they just made it a major pain in the ass to operate her business, in a normal manner, like all other airport businesses, in handing her a denial of use for parachute landings. The DZ is still free take off & land airplanes, pack in the hanger and conduct every part of business operations on the airport, other then parachute landings. (we all know it's wrong and a grant violation, but it's the FAA's enforcement, not the courts)

The fact that it is a chicken shit thing to do,it is the cities card to play, if they choose to go down that road and it's the job of the FAA and a good DZ lawyer to fix it. However the ape in the corner http://www.gpo.gov/.../html/2012-15912.htm is the new game changer in all this bullshit and can cause additional delay of action by the FAA as with some of the 12 other pending airport access cases around the country.


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jul 30, 2012, 8:56 AM
Post #15 of 39 (4034 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jinlee] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of your assumptions about how an airport is governed and what an airport sponsor may or may not do are wrong.

Courts won't hear access issues until an administrative process with the FAA has been conducted. Unless there is proof that the sponsor is violating their own city code, a state court injunction won't mean anything. Unless the sponsor is illegally discriminating against an operator under constitutional equal protection rights, a federal court filing is useless. Sponsors have rights under the airport compliance manual to run the airport within a broad spectrum of control. The FAA rarely gets involved unless a Part 13 and then Part 16 have been conducted with the ADO. It's also nearly impossible to sue for monetary damaages as a result of a sponsor's actions against an operator.

Even with all of the rules in skydiving's favor in the 5190.6b, we still face insurmountable odds sometimes, as a sponsor can drag things out for years.

The only way to resolve these issues is with a good attorney, USPA's guidance and unfortunately a lot of $$$$ and patience.

I can assure you that e-mailing the newspaper, city council and the mayor and most of all folks like Kevin Willis, who is the head of the FAA ACO-100 group will only serve to hit the bee hive.

When I finally prevailed over a sponsor for access I hired a land use attorney and an aviation attorney. They didn't tell the sponsor anything I hadn't for two years. What they knew however was the legal actions we could take against the sponsor and the ramifications that it would create.

Each access denial is slightly different and requires a well thought out game plan.


FreefallSnoopy

Jul 30, 2012, 3:50 PM
Post #16 of 39 (3924 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Andy9o8] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you suppose posting on an internet forum is helpful in general? I guess your countless hours spent on these forums posting 17k times has always been useful. I was making a statement that no one is stopping skydiving currently, if you'd like to make a real contribution, email the people on that list like these folks asked


tristansdad  (C 39285)

Jul 30, 2012, 5:05 PM
Post #17 of 39 (3896 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FreefallSnoopy] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Right on Jeff!! 17 grand is alot of effing posts. Anyway if I wasnt in Virginia I would have made that jump. How do you like your new gear by the way?


FreefallSnoopy

Jul 30, 2012, 7:10 PM
Post #18 of 39 (3843 views)
Shortcut
Re: [tristansdad] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

New gear is sweet, I'm really glad to have it. Somehow my main canopy order got mixed up, so we reordered my colors but otherwise I have the same size i wanted. How's the new DZ? Too bad you can't come down this weekend, plan is to make a whole bunch of jumps regardless of this silliness. I know TJP needs the business with as much as they lost due to above problems.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Jul 31, 2012, 10:33 AM
Post #19 of 39 (3697 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FreefallSnoopy] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How do you suppose posting on an internet forum is helpful in general? I guess your countless hours spent on these forums posting 17k times has always been useful. I was making a statement that no one is stopping skydiving currently, if you'd like to make a real contribution, email the people on that list like these folks asked

You may not be aware, but this is a monitored sight by Legal types, as it is not closed to guests, lawyers for the City are rumored to have even mentioned this thread already.

Now, they know you broke an FAR. (See Strat's posts)
That does not help the DZ, but as you apparently had a member of the DZ Ownership with you, they knew the risks.

Matt


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:12 AM
Post #20 of 39 (3661 views)
Shortcut
Re: [matthewcline] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
How do you suppose posting on an internet forum is helpful in general? I guess your countless hours spent on these forums posting 17k times has always been useful. I was making a statement that no one is stopping skydiving currently, if you'd like to make a real contribution, email the people on that list like these folks asked

You may not be aware, but this is a monitored sight by Legal types, as it is not closed to guests, lawyers for the City are rumored to have even mentioned this thread already.

Now, they know you broke an FAR. (See Strat's posts)
That does not help the DZ, but as you apparently had a member of the DZ Ownership with you, they knew the risks. Matt


...Which was exactly the point I was trying to make in my post: someone hostile to the DZ could very well look at the post I was replying to as evidence of a big "fuck you" from the DZ to the authorities. Glad my point wasn't too obscure... to everyone. Oh, and sorry for the other 16,999 posts - what can I say?


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:47 AM
Post #21 of 39 (3625 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FreefallSnoopy] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

 I was making a statement that no one is stopping skydiving currently...

In reply to:

You are correct, no one is stopping Skydiving currently.

What they ARE doing is stopping landing parachutes on the airport.

When you landed there you were in defiance of that restriction.

Right or wrong is for the courts to decide regarding the placement OF that restriction.

Knowingly breaking that restriction doesn't help the case one bit, in fact it hurts it considerably in that you've shown you could care less about observing the rules.

The fact no one was there to arrest or cite you is totally inconsequential...if I drive 100mph through a school zone and don't get a ticket it doesn't mean it's OK to do that, or there won't be a future price to pay...like say a traffic camera caught it.

Breaking a restriction at the airport is flat out stupid, the only statement that makes is one of conceded defiance for self gratification.

Bragging about it on an open public forum speaks volumes in regard to the lack of understanding of possible negative perception & legal implications in the REAL world.

Might wanna flush out your head-gear n00b and try to refrain from fuckin' things up even more with the 'it's all about ME' attitude...Wink


jinlee  (D License)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:51 AM
Post #22 of 39 (3621 views)
Shortcut
Re: [grimmie] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Most of your assumptions about how an airport is governed and what an airport sponsor may or may not do are wrong.

When I finally prevailed over a sponsor for access I hired a land use attorney and an aviation attorney. They didn't tell the sponsor anything I hadn't for two years. What they knew however was the legal actions we could take against the sponsor and the ramifications that it would create.

Each access denial is slightly different and requires a well thought out game plan.

It's not an area I am well versed in, nor educated about for years I'll admit. I at times truly dislike business hardball... but that's business at times, and costly.

I only mention ongoing monetary damages as a valid basis to have a hearing held quickly. In my experience often they are never recovered, nor are opposing attorney fees. They are claims which often are simply forgotten, settlement can involve years, as is the case with most civil business litigation.

Thanks for the information from both posters well versed in this area. Not understanding it fully that is why I mention I feel USPA Airport Access issues are "important" so we can all enjoy sport parachuting. Smile


normiss  (D 28356)

Jul 31, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #23 of 39 (3615 views)
Shortcut
Re: [jinlee] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like you need to locate a friendly farmer or business with a decent size field until this is sorted out....
and a bus.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Jul 31, 2012, 12:06 PM
Post #24 of 39 (3600 views)
Shortcut
Re: [FreefallSnoopy] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

Just tell them you were stuck on ship for 3 months and didn't get the memo. They will understand and apologize, thank you for your service, then probably come to their senses.Laugh

To all the city officials reading this shit: go do your job and quit hassling another job creator/ tax payer. Skydivers bring a lot of money to the community. We just want to borrow the sky for a few minutes a day. Is that a fucking crime? Deet duh dee.Crazy


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 31, 2012, 2:51 PM
Post #25 of 39 (3529 views)
Shortcut
Re: [grimmie] Call to Action: City of Saint Marys Shuts Down The Jumping Place Skydiving Center [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I can assure you that e-mailing the newspaper, city council and the mayor and most of all folks like Kevin Willis, who is the head of the FAA ACO-100 group will only serve to hit the bee hive.

News Article

Didn't see this anywhere already.

I like the drogue toss on the video.


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : General Skydiving Discussions

 


Search for (options)