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Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump

 

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RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 6:33 AM
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Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump Can't Post

On a recent balloon jump in Perris, I was the only jumper on the morning. My wife & 5yr old son were in the basket with other PAX which were only women and young girls. Great jump and day out with family.

However upon landing in a flat/clear/open field, the “local idiot” shows up in his truck and begins to berate the pilot and group for landing in his field and demands they lift immediately, the wind was starting to pick up and the next landing area was a works site. The pilot gives up and makes a questionable landing in the adjacent area with a tractor and multiple front-end loaders moving about.

The “Farmer McNasty” was about 5’6” with distinct “little man complex” (third photo attached shows his licence plate). We’ve all run across some wankers, but this guy was level 10. I didn’t wish to cause any repercussions to the balloon company (I’m in my FF suit and can only assume he thinks I work with the company), however after clearly noting that I’m not part of the company and am actually a paying passenger, I begin to argue quite harshly with him. He’s doing the usual “I’ll call the police” to which I reply “Yes, here I’ll call them myself”. Short story; as I go to photo his licence plate, he quickly leaves; gets in truck and pulls away as I’m taking a picture.

If you run across this idiot in the Perris area, remember this story and afford him the kindness he deserves.


(This post was edited by Meso on Jul 30, 2012, 4:51 AM)
Attachments: Perris1.JPG (264 KB)
  Perris2.JPG (193 KB)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 28, 2012, 6:50 AM
Post #2 of 55 (3338 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

So you're upset that a land owner wanted you off of HIS property? And how exactly is HE the idiot? After all, it was YOU that was trespassing.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 28, 2012, 6:59 AM
Post #3 of 55 (3332 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess you showed him. Good PR for the DZ. CrazyMad

Sparky


RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 7:01 AM
Post #4 of 55 (3329 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

I don’t care to write a long-winded post as to exactly what he said and how he said it, but yes he was being an ass. In the subsequent lift/land, if anyone had been injured it would not have so simple for him.

At one point, he said “You don’t know; do you own property?” to which I just smile. It’s odd that the public just assumes anyone out doing activities like skydiving or white-water kayaking is poor and without resources. I fully understand the legal/liability issues regarding property (except mine are multiple locations in London, not some bit of scrub land outside Perris, CA)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 28, 2012, 7:03 AM
Post #5 of 55 (3320 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don’t care to write a long-winded post as to exactly what he said and how he said it, but yes he was being an ass. In the subsequent lift/land, if anyone had been injured it would not have so simple for him.

At one point, he said “You don’t know; do you own property?” to which I just smile. It’s odd that the public just assumes anyone out doing activities like skydiving or white-water kayaking is poor and without resources. I fully understand the legal/liability issues regarding property (except mine are multiple locations in London, not some bit of scrub land outside Perris, CA)

Maybe you should go back to London, your attitude sucks.

Sparky


RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 7:05 AM
Post #6 of 55 (3321 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't have anything to do with the DZ. I was the only jumper, all my gear was in van. For all he sees/knows, I have a stripe on sides of my trousers - what does that mean to him?


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 28, 2012, 7:06 AM
Post #7 of 55 (3315 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

 Land owners have the rights on their own property.

Ultimately, you are trespassing.

The Balloon guy really should always carry a bottle of wine or case of beer to hand over to landowners, every time they land. The balloon is always gonna come down somewhere.

Even a couple of free tickets for a balloon ride would go across better than just showing up unannounced and without apology.

Its called PR 101.....

Balloons and livestock are not good mixers, I've seen animals panic big time when a balloon goes over with the bunsen burner lit up. The farmer might have already had a bad experience with a balloon.

The farmer might still be pissed off, but at least the balloon guy can make an effort to sweeten things. Not to do so is to invite a poor response.

Edited to add....if the balloon guy took off in marginal conditions and thereby put his passengers at risk, then that is his fault, not the farmers. Could not the passengers have walked off the field and left the ballon guy to take off by himself?.

Seems to me the balloon guy might be short of a few clues here.


(This post was edited by obelixtim on Jul 28, 2012, 7:10 AM)


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 28, 2012, 7:15 AM
Post #8 of 55 (3301 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don’t care to write a long-winded post as to exactly what he said and how he said it, but yes he was being an ass. In the subsequent lift/land, if anyone had been injured it would not have so simple for him.

At one point, he said “You don’t know; do you own property?” to which I just smile. It’s odd that the public just assumes anyone out doing activities like skydiving or white-water kayaking is poor and without resources. I fully understand the legal/liability issues regarding property (except mine are multiple locations in London, not some bit of scrub land outside Perris, CA)

And I don't care to read a long-winded post either.

How exactly would it have been not "so simple" for McNasty had someone been injured in the re-launch and landing?

I think you need to lose the attitude, have some respect for property owners, and move on.


cocheese  (D 24000)

Jul 28, 2012, 7:24 AM
Post #9 of 55 (3294 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

How was your jump?
What altitude?
Was it worth the effort?


RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 7:26 AM
Post #10 of 55 (3285 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

- guy was not disgruntled; he was screaming/shouting/threatening to the whole group

- the pilot was being as polite/appologetic as possible – they were already on ground. I can see him apologising profusely, telling landowner that he’ll have his company mark this field as no-go on their charts for any future flights.

- the pilot was visibly concerned about the safety of landing in the adjacent field and asked could he please just take down the balloon – to which he was refused

- there was a lot of activity and dangers in the second field.

- there were no animals/livestock for miles; I’m just using the generalist term “Farmer McNasty”

- re lift/weight, he could not just have everyone in the basket jump out there and then. They had to stay put (I’m not the pilot and am only a paying passenger; so not my call)

- I assume others wouldn’t stand quietly by and see their wife & small child put in danger for no reason.


RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 7:31 AM
Post #11 of 55 (3281 views)
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Re: [cocheese] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How was your jump?
What altitude?
Was it worth the effort?

Finally a reasonalbe person.

Fantastic jump, got 5K and nice vid falling away backwards with wife/son in shot.

Would highly recommend the balloon company (we all know which company I'm referring to; I don't mean to bring them into this).


(This post was edited by RMK on Jul 28, 2012, 7:34 AM)


cocheese  (D 24000)

Jul 28, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #12 of 55 (3276 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool. Glad you enjoyed it and had a safe landing. They are always worth the effort.Cool Peace.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 28, 2012, 8:07 AM
Post #13 of 55 (3239 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
- guy was not disgruntled; he was screaming/shouting/threatening to the whole group

- the pilot was being as polite/appologetic as possible – they were already on ground. I can see him apologising profusely, telling landowner that he’ll have his company mark this field as no-go on their charts for any future flights.

- the pilot was visibly concerned about the safety of landing in the adjacent field and asked could he please just take down the balloon – to which he was refused

- there was a lot of activity and dangers in the second field.

- there were no animals/livestock for miles; I’m just using the generalist term “Farmer McNasty”

- re lift/weight, he could not just have everyone in the basket jump out there and then. They had to stay put (I’m not the pilot and am only a paying passenger; so not my call)

- I assume others wouldn’t stand quietly by and see their wife & small child put in danger for no reason.

Guess you aren't getting it. Let's break it down.

Property owner screaming and shouting because the pilot landed on his property without permission. That's his right. And how exactly did he threaten someone?

Pilot apologetic. Good. He made a non-emergency landing on someone's property without permission.

Pilot concerned about the safety of a re-launch. He could have refused for safety reasons and began packing up.

Lots of activity and dangers in the second field. Pilot could have flown beyond that field to a safer one.

Pilot demanded all passengers stay with balloon for re-launch. Bullshit. If a passenger wants out while the balloon is on the ground, just climb the hell out.

You assume others wouldn't stand by while their wife and small child were put in danger. Funny, that's exactly what you did!

Seems to me you had a lot of choices in this situation and just made ones you later regretted.


RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 9:32 AM
Post #14 of 55 (3198 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Pilot demanded all passengers stay with balloon for re-launch. Bullshit. If a passenger wants out while the balloon is on the ground, just climb the hell out.

You lack even a simple understanding of physics.

1100-1200 lbs of “people” quickly getting out of a balloon would make it “cork” up quickly. They did want to get out, but were specifically told not to do so by the pilot.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 28, 2012, 10:15 AM
Post #15 of 55 (3166 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Pilot demanded all passengers stay with balloon for re-launch. Bullshit. If a passenger wants out while the balloon is on the ground, just climb the hell out.

You lack even a simple understanding of physics.

1100-1200 lbs of “people” quickly getting out of a balloon would make it “cork” up quickly. They did want to get out, but were specifically told not to do so by the pilot.

My grasp of physics is just fine and so is my knowledge of balloons. I think you took my words too literally. I wasn't suggesting that anyone get out without announcing it, but if someone wants out there are procedures the pilot can execute to allow it safely.

Besides, I wasn't talking about everyone getting out, just the ones you seemed so concerned about.

I assure you, if the gondola was on the ground and the balloon pilot was about to put me or my loved ones in danger, we'd get out.


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jul 28, 2012, 11:27 AM
Post #16 of 55 (3119 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you run across this idiot in the Perris area, remember this story and afford him the kindness he deserves.

Between that sentence and posting his license plate, you are publicly inciting retaliation against him personally, and making it easier for like-minded people to identify him, find him and do so. Be coy about it if you wish, but it's quite obvious that that's your clear intent. That's just appalling.

I think you've crossed a line in terms of what is (or should be) permissible here. If I were one of the powers-that-be on this site (which I ain't), I'd delete the entire thread and ban you for a while. And if I were the site-owners' lawyer (which I ain't) I'd advise them to delete it to avoid even the possibility of that man or his family splattering them with blame in case anything happens to him. In fact, even if nothing happens to him, quite a few lawyers (including prosecutors) might still deem it to be a very thinly-veiled threat.


(This post was edited by Andy9o8 on Jul 28, 2012, 11:29 AM)


robinheid  (D 5533)

Jul 28, 2012, 12:15 PM
Post #17 of 55 (3088 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On a recent balloon jump in Perris, I was the only jumper on the morning. My wife & 5yr old son were in the basket with other PAX which were only women and young girls. Great jump and day out with family.

However upon landing in a flat/clear/open field, the “local idiot” shows up in his truck and begins to berate the pilot and group for landing in his field and demands they lift immediately, the wind was starting to pick up and the next landing area was a works site. The pilot gives up and makes a questionable landing in the adjacent area with a tractor and multiple front-end loaders moving about.

The “Farmer McNasty” was about 5’6” with distinct “little man complex” (third photo attached shows his licence plate). We’ve all run across some wankers, but this guy was level 10. I didn’t wish to cause any repercussions to the balloon company (I’m in my FF suit and can only assume he thinks I work with the company), however after clearly noting that I’m not part of the company and am actually a paying passenger, I begin to argue quite harshly with him. He’s doing the usual “I’ll call the police” to which I reply “Yes, here I’ll call them myself”. Short story; as I go to photo his licence plate, he quickly leaves; gets in truck and pulls away as I’m taking a picture.

If you run across this idiot in the Perris area, remember this story and afford him the kindness he deserves.

My, my, what a sense of entitlement you have.

Landowner is angry because a guy uses landowner's property without permission or ex post facto compensation to make money for his business -- and you think the landowner is out of line?

Gee, next time I'm in London, let me borrow your car without your permission and drive some people around for hire -- and then apologize but not compensate you for using your property without permission.

Better yet, how about landowner takes your skydiving gear without your permission and does some well-paid demo jumps on it, then apologizes for taking it and promises not to do it again, but doesn't offer you any compensation?

From each according to his worked-for property, to each according to his entertainment needs, is that it? I knew UK long ago descended into socialist decay, but I didn't realize it had already done away with the concept of private property.

Finally, though, even though it's clear what you are, the full responsibility for this confrontation falls on the the balloon operator because he failed to:

a) properly brief his passengers on how to act; and

b) did not, as another poster mentioned, have "mea culpa" items such as champagne, gift cards, et al, in the event of inadvertent landings on the property of unwilling-to-participate landowners..

But you made everything far worse and if I was running the show at Perris, I think I'd invite you to jump elsewhere because I sure wouldn't want you interacting with the DZ neighbors if you landed off-site for some reason. You'd probably not only argue with them. you'd probably want them to pay you for the demo.

44
Cool

P.S. How was it that the other passengers were ordered to stay in the balloon for safety reasons -- but you got out to take pictures of the "idiot" and then pointed the camera the wrong way?


RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 1:33 PM
Post #18 of 55 (3057 views)
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Re: [robinheid] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
P.S. How was it that the other passengers were ordered to stay in the balloon for safety reasons -- but you got out to take pictures

I wasn’t in the balloon; I had jumped (skydived) out of the balloon about 30mins prior (if you comment, at least read the thread).

If some small children accidentally kick a ball into yours or (Chucky’s) yard, do you run out and keep their ball and run them away?

I’m done here on this thread and “hotbed of insecurity”...carry on.


RMK

Jul 28, 2012, 1:40 PM
Post #19 of 55 (3049 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

Andy, I must be reasonable and agree with you on the plate photo.

It is now too late to edit/delete it myself, so could a moderator please delete photo #3 in the original post.


(This post was edited by RMK on Jul 28, 2012, 1:42 PM)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 28, 2012, 3:35 PM
Post #20 of 55 (2961 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
P.S. How was it that the other passengers were ordered to stay in the balloon for safety reasons -- but you got out to take pictures

I wasn’t in the balloon; I had jumped (skydived) out of the balloon about 30mins prior (if you comment, at least read the thread).

If some small children accidentally kick a ball into yours or (Chucky’s) yard, do you run out and keep their ball and run them away?

I’m done here on this thread and “hotbed of insecurity”...carry on.

Where did you land, BTW. On the same field?.

And kids kicking a ball around can't really be equated to adults flying a balloon.

I guess you are angry because the brotherhood of skydivers didn't immediatley see "sense" according to your understanding of the word.

It sounds as if the farmer was maybe being unreasonable, but there may have been a reason for that you might not have been aware of. Some people are just unreasonable full stop. You just have to suck it up and deal with it.

I think the balloon pilot could have done a better job too....


robinheid  (D 5533)

Jul 28, 2012, 5:03 PM
Post #21 of 55 (2918 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
P.S. How was it that the other passengers were ordered to stay in the balloon for safety reasons -- but you got out to take pictures

I wasn’t in the balloon; I had jumped (skydived) out of the balloon about 30mins prior (if you comment, at least read the thread).

If some small children accidentally kick a ball into yours or (Chucky’s) yard, do you run out and keep their ball and run them away?

I’m done here on this thread and “hotbed of insecurity”...carry on.

Sorry, you sound like such an effing whuffo I forgot that you actually skydived out of the balloon -- but like another poster, I too am curious if you landed without permission on the landowner's private property.

Your ball-in-the-yard analogy is pathetic; the kids aren't making money by throwing their ball into the landowner's yard without compensating him for it or asking for permission, the landowner in question did not keep the balloon, and as someone else already mentioned, there is in fact a difference between adults and children.

Really, dude, with "thought" processes such as you've displayed in this thread, you really ought to think about selling your gear and giving up your driver's license before you kill yourself or, worse, someone else.

That way, you can study up on private property rights and good manners while you're riding the bus or the tube.

44
Cool


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 28, 2012, 6:29 PM
Post #22 of 55 (2874 views)
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Re: [RMK] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If some small children accidentally kick a ball into yours or (Chucky’s) yard, do you run out and keep their ball and run them away?

I’m done here on this thread and “hotbed of insecurity”...carry on.

The balloon pilot isn't a small child and he landed on McNasty's property intentionally, my friend.

Yes, please do carry on. You have a lot to learn about this country and our values.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 28, 2012, 8:29 PM
Post #23 of 55 (2811 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

@ those who are supporting the McNasty:

Well, how the heck are balloons & balloon companies supposed to operate?

Sometimes a ground crew can get out ahead and find the appropriate house to inquire about a particular field to land in... but I would guess that doesn't happen often.

Fundamentally there has to be some agreement whether all balloonists are evil and the practice of ballooning must be stopped, if they operate anywhere where there is private property, or whether it is "normal" for balloons to land on private property -- where they can do it as long as they pay for any minor damage caused.

Indeed, same goes for glider pilots, or *gasp* skydivers. What is a tolerable off-landing rate? No more than one jumper on a given person's private property per year, or else the DZ should be shut down? Otherwise someone is trying to make a profit off someone else's private property, because the DZ is too cheap to buy all the land within a mile of the airport.

I'm not advocating any particular answer. Just saying that generally, ballooning has been tolerated as an aerial activity, and they do need to land on others' property. If so, a landowner is allowed to be a little upset, but can't be able to dictate safety-of-flight issues.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 29, 2012, 3:08 AM
Post #24 of 55 (2721 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

 No one is actually "supporting" McNasty, we are just pointing out his rights, which the OP seems to have difficulty understanding.

Its obvious in this case too, that the balloon pilot/company could probably have done a better job. It seems that a bit of PR would not have gone amiss, but it sounds like the situation was compounded by the OP arguing with the farmer.

I would think there would be a rule somewhere in the system for balloons and their rights when landing, whereever that may be, and I'm sure if safety is a concern, the FAA would have some rule allowing landing on private property....

In this case if safety was an issue I cannot see why the pilot didn't just deflate his balloon and vacate the field as quickly as possible. If the Farmer was objecting strongly then a call to the police would have been the best course of action, although it seems the farmer left the scene on his own volition.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 29, 2012, 6:18 AM
Post #25 of 55 (2667 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Farmer McNasty – Perris Area Balloon Jump [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
@ those who are supporting the McNasty:

Well, how the heck are balloons & balloon companies supposed to operate?

Sometimes a ground crew can get out ahead and find the appropriate house to inquire about a particular field to land in... but I would guess that doesn't happen often.

Fundamentally there has to be some agreement whether all balloonists are evil and the practice of ballooning must be stopped, if they operate anywhere where there is private property, or whether it is "normal" for balloons to land on private property -- where they can do it as long as they pay for any minor damage caused.

Indeed, same goes for glider pilots, or *gasp* skydivers. What is a tolerable off-landing rate? No more than one jumper on a given person's private property per year, or else the DZ should be shut down? Otherwise someone is trying to make a profit off someone else's private property, because the DZ is too cheap to buy all the land within a mile of the airport.

I'm not advocating any particular answer. Just saying that generally, ballooning has been tolerated as an aerial activity, and they do need to land on others' property. If so, a landowner is allowed to be a little upset, but can't be able to dictate safety-of-flight issues.

Our point wasn't about the bigger picture, it was that the OP's post was nothing more than a self-centered rant. He wanted to make everything the property owner's fault when clearly none of it was.

BTW, if a glider pilot routinely needs to land off designated strips, some remedial training is needed. Wink


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