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Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did...

 

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Vertifly  (D 27236)

Jul 27, 2012, 6:31 AM
Post #1 of 60 (3551 views)
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Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... Can't Post

This is my first post in many years, but I couldn't resist. So I'm getting rid of my gear; at least for the next 18 years or more. It's been a great run. After 16 strong and wonderful years of skydiving, I am hanging it up for a while. I've had the best times of my life with some of you. And I've lost some really good friends too. Perhaps a few too many for me to keep my sanity about it.

Anyway, I'm so thankful to have been a part of this wonderful family across the states and more.

As a plug in, I am selling all of my gear. It's all in great condition and it can be seen in the classified sections. Much of it was sponsored gear and I am passing on the savings to the next buyers. I hope it serves them well.

On that note, this guy wanted to buy my Velo 90, and here went the conversation:

Buyer: Hello,i just wanted to let you know am interested in your
> PD Velocity 90,that goes for $990,i was actually browsing through your and saw it on there and decided to contact you to know if its still available and in good condition...
>
> Am from canada,and i will love to know how much you are actually giving it out for,and whats your best offer for it and more details about it......
> Thanks, K

Vertifly: 990 is the best I can do. It is already a very fair price.

Buyer: Sounds cool, so whats your form of payment?

Vertifly: I cantake Paypal. The shipping would be $30 to Canada.

Would you like me to send the Paypal request to you now? It can be sent out tomorrow morning via USPS.

Buyer: I do not have paypal acct,so was thinking if a cashiers check will be preferable.


Vertifly: You wouldn't need a cashiers check. I can send the request and you pay to PayPal using a credit card.

There is a 4% fee for it, but I'm willing to split it with you. 2% each is 20 each.

Buyer: Thats the problem i do not have a credit card and i wouldn't want to risk my bank information with paypal so sending a cashiers check would be easier i can make it available for instant cashing and soon as it clears then you can mail out the PD Velocity 90.

Vertifly: Ok. I will hold the canopy until the check arrives if you like. How fast can you get it to here?

I'm at ................................ .

Vertifly: By the way, what is your skydiving experience.

Buyer: I am 5ft tall weigh about 175lbs and have about 250 jumps i need a name that will be on the check please..

Vertifly: Sorry ........., I can't sell you this canopy if you only have 250 jumps. It will surely hurt you or worse.

Good luck.

Buyer: How many jumps have you\?


Vertifly: If you have to ask that, then you should buy a canopy that the same size as your weight.


Pluggin attached.


(This post was edited by Vertifly on Jul 27, 2012, 6:36 AM)
Attachments: 298415-largest_Micron.jpg (79.6 KB)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 27, 2012, 6:50 AM
Post #2 of 60 (3509 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Well done. Good call....


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Jul 27, 2012, 6:50 AM
Post #3 of 60 (3509 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

No, what you almost did is fall victim to a very common type of scam.

Notice how the person keeps referring to "PD Velocity" and their overall insistence of using a cashiers check and zero skydiving verbiage ?

BTW : B/W pictures may be artistic, but they are not as useful as color ones when selling canopies


ChrisL  (C 35323)

Jul 27, 2012, 6:56 AM
Post #4 of 60 (3492 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, what you almost did is fall victim to a very common type of scam.

+1


spage  (C License)

Jul 27, 2012, 6:57 AM
Post #5 of 60 (3491 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

+1

The initial correspondence is textbook copy-paste scam correspondence.


(This post was edited by spage on Jul 27, 2012, 6:57 AM)


TheRealOps7  (Student)

Jul 27, 2012, 6:57 AM
Post #6 of 60 (3488 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

You lucked out on that one. Your safety consciousness saved you from getting ripped off for sure.

I've got a cashiers check with a big red "COUNTERFEIT" stamp across it from a situation similar to yours.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 27, 2012, 6:58 AM
Post #7 of 60 (3484 views)
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Re: [likestojump] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, what you almost did is fall victim to a very common type of scam.

Notice how the person keeps referring to "PD Velocity" and their overall insistence of using a cashiers check and zero skydiving verbiage ?

BTW : B/W pictures may be artistic, but they are not as useful as color ones when selling canopies

Yeah, I think you are right. A skydiver with 250 jumps would be saying Velo.....

Might be worth considering asking any future buyers some semi skydiving related questions....nonsensical ones of course are the best....sort of like..."I just put a new tail rudder on it, it flies fine, do you think you can handle it?" and listen to the response, or something along those lines...


(This post was edited by obelixtim on Jul 27, 2012, 9:50 AM)


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Jul 27, 2012, 7:04 AM
Post #8 of 60 (3470 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks. Woops.


Vertifly  (D 27236)

Jul 27, 2012, 7:14 AM
Post #9 of 60 (3451 views)
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Re: [TheRealOps7] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll try to scam him back then.

Anyway, is Paypal always a safe bet?


DiverMike  (C 40024)

Jul 27, 2012, 7:26 AM
Post #10 of 60 (3439 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Always" is a little strong, but I have never heard of any issues using Paypal.


DcloudZ  (B 37320)

Jul 27, 2012, 7:36 AM
Post #11 of 60 (3421 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

There's no point in scamming him back, it most likely would not work. As for paypal, it's quite un-safe in my opinion.


ChrisL  (C 35323)

Jul 27, 2012, 7:50 AM
Post #12 of 60 (3400 views)
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Re: [DcloudZ] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There's no point in scamming him back, it most likely would not work. As for paypal, it's quite un-safe in my opinion.

I've been using paypal for years and never had a single problem.

Is your opinion based on any direct negative experience?


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 27, 2012, 9:09 AM
Post #13 of 60 (3319 views)
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Re: [ChrisL] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
There's no point in scamming him back, it most likely would not work. As for paypal, it's quite un-safe in my opinion.

I've been using paypal for years and never had a single problem.

Is your opinion based on any direct negative experience?

Paypal protects the buyer more usually. Say you ship the canopy but for some reason don't get signature delivery, the buyer can say they never got it, paypal would refund them.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 27, 2012, 9:18 AM
Post #14 of 60 (3308 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'll try to scam him back then.

Anyway, is Paypal always a safe bet?

There is a website called "Scambaiter 419" which you should find with a google search. It gives examples of lots of different scams and how to get them back.

Even if you don't want to do anything, there are some hilarious stories on there that a well worth a read.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 27, 2012, 9:42 AM
Post #15 of 60 (3266 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

A while back I tried to sell a Crossfire 99. About a dozen people responded to the ad. I asked them for a reference so I could call the reference and ask them "can this guy really fly the 99?" Only one turned out to be willing to do that - and ironically he was in Russia and knew a friend of mine in Alaska. Called my friend and he said "yeah, he's been jumping a 99 for years."

Never thought about the additional benefit, that a reference would also help make sure the guy wasn't a scammer.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Jul 27, 2012, 10:43 AM
Post #16 of 60 (3192 views)
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Re: [billvon] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A while back I tried to sell a Crossfire 99. About a dozen people responded to the ad. I asked them for a reference so I could call the reference and ask them "can this guy really fly the 99?" Only one turned out to be willing to do that - and ironically he was in Russia and knew a friend of mine in Alaska. Called my friend and he said "yeah, he's been jumping a 99 for years."

Never thought about the additional benefit, that a reference would also help make sure the guy wasn't a scammer.

To the OP.... it probably was a scam and I am glad you didn't get taken but kudos for asking the question and making sure the guy.gal was ready for the canopy. I like what Bill does in asking for references.


Divalent  (C 40494)

Jul 27, 2012, 10:57 AM
Post #17 of 60 (3176 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'll try to scam him back then.

Anyway, is Paypal always a safe bet?

PayPal is NOT safe! User uses stolen credit card to link to Paypal, makes payment (to your PP account), you ship canopy, credit card issuer refuses charge, PayPal comes back to you for the money.

In this case the scammer gets the canopy. The Cashier check scam often they don't want the thing you are selling (but it works that way, too); usually they send you a check for more than the sales price, and you send them back the difference. Later on your bank lets you know the check is no good. (And the guy who was supposed to pick up the canopy never comes by for it).


Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jul 27, 2012, 11:06 AM
Post #18 of 60 (3162 views)
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Re: [Divalent] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'll try to scam him back then.

Anyway, is Paypal always a safe bet?

PayPal is NOT safe! User uses stolen credit card to link to Paypal, makes payment (to your PP account), you ship canopy, credit card issuer refuses charge, PayPal comes back to you for the money.

In this case the scammer gets the canopy. The Cashier check scam often they don't want the thing you are selling (but it works that way, too); usually they send you a check for more than the sales price, and you send them back the difference. Later on your bank lets you know the check is no good. (And the guy who was supposed to pick up the canopy never comes by for it).

Let's amend that to say that PayPal does not keep you safe from scammers. However, it's perfectly safe with known quantities; I've used it for many a transaction as both buyer and seller. However, in all cases, I'd done some offline vetting before sending money through PayPal.

Kudos to the OP for trying to keep someone safe; glad that in the process, it also helped keep you safe. Keep your scam radar on high alert. (And report the guy if you haven't already: http://www.dropzone.com/...nt/Detailed/593.html)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jul 27, 2012, 11:27 AM
Post #19 of 60 (3129 views)
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Re: [] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't care if it was a scam. This post (other than about advertising gear for sale Wink) was about asking a few questions and looking out for the newbies.


To the OP - THANKS. I hope everyone selling a spec has the same sense of responsibility to the kids as you do.


I learned a couple more reasons to use a reference for gear transactions (always did, but this is another one) also - nice thread.


Enjoy the time off of the sport - nice picture


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jul 27, 2012, 11:28 AM)


SEREJumper  (D 29555)

Jul 27, 2012, 12:10 PM
Post #20 of 60 (3074 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
but for some reason don't get signature delivery

So make sure you get signature delivery! If a person wants to be dishonest, it's very easy to have paypal rule in their favor. That being said, I've used paypal for years and have had little trouble with them. Do your own vetting, talk to them on the phone, get a good feeling for them ect.

The other option would be to use a rigger as escrow, normally for canopies. Once the rigger has the item and says it's good to go, buyer pays you, and you tell the rigger to release the canopy to the buyer.


(This post was edited by SEREJumper on Jul 27, 2012, 1:00 PM)


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Jul 27, 2012, 12:34 PM
Post #21 of 60 (3046 views)
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Re: [Divalent] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'll try to scam him back then.

Anyway, is Paypal always a safe bet?

PayPal is NOT safe! User uses stolen credit card to link to Paypal, makes payment (to your PP account), you ship canopy, credit card issuer refuses charge, PayPal comes back to you for the money.

In this case the scammer gets the canopy. The Cashier check scam often they don't want the thing you are selling (but it works that way, too); usually they send you a check for more than the sales price, and you send them back the difference. Later on your bank lets you know the check is no good. (And the guy who was supposed to pick up the canopy never comes by for it).

aside form what SERE said, I'd like to add my 13+ years and $10M+ of Paypal experience to say that Paypal is a wonderful tool. And just like with any other tool, you need to know how to use it.

One can get scammed sending a check, one can get scammed using a rigger, one can get scammed in many different ways if they put their brain to rest and put the fate of the transaction in somebody elses hands.


buff  (D 30567)

Jul 27, 2012, 12:50 PM
Post #22 of 60 (3022 views)
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Re: [Vertifly] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

At 5' 175lbs, you should have to him he needs a bowling ball bag not a canopy.


5.samadhi

Jul 27, 2012, 4:00 PM
Post #23 of 60 (2905 views)
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Re: Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

I disagree that you should be researching people's experience levels when selling gear. Its their business what they do with the canopy when they get it. Depriving people of personal autonomy is never a good thing. Treat people like imbeciles and they will be imbeciles.

Plus you lose a sale.

But you clearly saved yourself some hassle because it is obviously a scam.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jul 27, 2012, 4:05 PM
Post #24 of 60 (2894 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

>I disagree that you should be researching people's experience levels when selling
>gear. Its their business what they do with the canopy when they get it.

It is their business - but it is your business who you sell it to. People selling gear have a responsibility (IMO) to honestly represent the gear they sell, and to not sell it to people who are clearly unqualified to use it safely.

>Plus you lose a sale.

Yes, you do. But you might save a life.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jul 27, 2012, 4:08 PM
Post #25 of 60 (2893 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I disagree that you should be researching people's experience levels when selling gear. Its their business what they do with the canopy when they get it. Depriving people of personal autonomy is never a good thing. Treat people like imbeciles and they will be imbeciles.

Plus you lose a sale.

But you clearly saved yourself some hassle because it is obviously a scam.

You're awesome.

PS: I'm sorry that deal didn't work out for you.


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