Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
single harness/single parachute legality (international)?

 

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5.samadhi

Jul 26, 2012, 6:30 PM
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single harness/single parachute legality (international)? Can't Post

out of simple curiosity what countries legally allow single parachute systems to be jumped from airplanes.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 26, 2012, 6:41 PM
Post #2 of 38 (1186 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
out of simple curiosity what countries legally allow single parachute systems to be jumped from airplanes.

No idea.

Sparky


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jul 26, 2012, 6:43 PM
Post #3 of 38 (1185 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder why this is even a question? What are you planning to do?!? Wink

In all seriousness, I can't imagine any country that has flying regulations which include skydiving would allow this. I mean, maybe Somalia which is a country without a government and probably doesn't have any skydiving at all would allow it, but I can't think of a single sane country that would.


(This post was edited by quade on Jul 26, 2012, 6:48 PM)


5.samadhi

Jul 26, 2012, 6:49 PM
Post #4 of 38 (1169 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
out of simple curiosity what countries legally allow single parachute systems to be jumped from airplanes.

No idea.

Sparky
thanks for posting then haha! Tongue

Laugh


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jul 26, 2012, 6:55 PM
Post #5 of 38 (1161 views)
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Re: [quade] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Paul,

Think of a country that has no official parachute req'ments. Canada quickly comes to mind.

Now CSPA might really, really frown on it, but if you owned your own airplane I don't see where it would be illegal.

Also, all TSO standards require live jumps, usually two. The TSO standards say that the test harness 'may' be altered to accomodate another parachute. It does not require that the harness be altered; ergo, you can legally jump with a single harness/single parachute if it is part of the testing for certification.

I strongly recommend not doing so.

JerryBaumchen


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 26, 2012, 7:38 PM
Post #6 of 38 (1140 views)
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Re: [quade] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wonder why this is even a question? What are you planning to do?!? Wink

In all seriousness, I can't imagine any country that has flying regulations which include skydiving would allow this. I mean, maybe Somalia which is a country without a government and probably doesn't have any skydiving at all would allow it, but I can't think of a single sane country that would.

Our country allows it, if the plane is on fire or missing a wing or something.Tongue


Freeflaw  (C License)

Jul 26, 2012, 8:12 PM
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Re: [theonlyski] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

A little bird told me that Switzerland does not have a requirement for a reserve. Haven't looked into it but my gut tells me that this isn't likely. It came up in a wouldn't it be cool to have a proximity flying DZ conversation. Sure would be nice. Flying a skyrig next to a mountain - no thank you. But yeah regulation is great.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 26, 2012, 8:32 PM
Post #8 of 38 (1117 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Canada quickly comes to mind.
Now CSPA might really, really frown on it,

Correct! If you aren't doing a CSPA-related jump, and are not doing a demo jump (which have specific federal rules), you are free to jump what you want from an airplane, including a BASE rig.


(E.g., On one of the big sponsored expeditions to Baffin island for BASE jumps, maybe 5+ years back, some of the crew jumped into their camp area from the aircraft transporting their equipment. I don't think they brought separate skydiving rigs along just for that...)

Whether a DZO would want to rent out a plane for non-CSPA (or non-USPA) jumps, even away from the DZ, is another matter.


RiggerLee

Jul 26, 2012, 9:41 PM
Post #9 of 38 (1082 views)
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Re: [pchapman] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

Who jumped ino Baffin?

Lee


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Jul 26, 2012, 10:29 PM
Post #10 of 38 (1072 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

If I'm not entirely mistaken you can do that under certain circumstances in Germany.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jul 26, 2012, 11:40 PM
Post #11 of 38 (1060 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

Germany requires a certified harness and a reserve. You can put a chest mount reserve on connectors to certain base harnesses to meet this requirement but they still need a reserve.


virgin-burner

Jul 27, 2012, 1:40 AM
Post #12 of 38 (1026 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

technically illegal in switzerland, but you may find a place or two where they would care about it too much. but if shit goes wrong, shit does go wrong; for all involved! Wink


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 27, 2012, 5:09 AM
Post #13 of 38 (965 views)
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Re: [RiggerLee] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Who jumped ino Baffin?

Aside: 'The Asgard Project' they called it, for Mt. Asgard; plenty of it on youtube; I looked & confirmed they used BASE rigs from the Kenn Borek Air's turbine DC-3.


piisfish

Jul 27, 2012, 5:24 AM
Post #14 of 38 (954 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
technically illegal in switzerland, but you may find a place or two where they would care about it too much. but if shit goes wrong, shit does go wrong; for all involved! Wink
not exactly


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 27, 2012, 1:29 PM
Post #15 of 38 (832 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Flying a skyrig next to a mountain - no thank you.

Can you explain why?

Sparky


5.samadhi

Jul 27, 2012, 2:35 PM
Post #16 of 38 (809 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Flying a skyrig next to a mountain - no thank you.

Can you explain why?

Sparky
perhaps the complications added for an environment where they could be utilized pose problems in an environment where they could not be utilized (low deployments).

I was thinking more along the lines of jumping into a campsite (ie Baffin). Its great you could do that in Canada (that was one of the main countries I was interested in!)

Thanks for the info so far.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 27, 2012, 7:56 PM
Post #17 of 38 (767 views)
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Re: [Freeflaw] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
A little bird told me that Switzerland does not have a requirement for a reserve. Haven't looked into it but my gut tells me that this isn't likely. It came up in a wouldn't it be cool to have a proximity flying DZ conversation. Sure would be nice. Flying a skyrig next to a mountain - no thank you. But yeah regulation is great.

Could you explain why?

Sparky


skypuppy  (D 347)

Jul 27, 2012, 9:53 PM
Post #18 of 38 (746 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

the rules are a bit vague in canada. The pilot could still get in trouble if MOT found out what was going on. Would depend a bit on circumstances.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 28, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #19 of 38 (672 views)
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Re: [skypuppy] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the rules are a bit vague in canada. The pilot could still get in trouble if MOT found out what was going on. Would depend a bit on circumstances.

........................................................................

Transport Canada fobs off most of the responsibility for regulating skydiving on CSPA. As long as CSP keeps the fataltity rate low, TC stays out of the business of directly regulating skydiving in Canada. Most years, TC is satisfied with reviewing the books of Canadian DZs.

Canadian Air Regulations require that all skydives - in Canada - be done in accordance with guidelines written by CSPA, CAPS or a similar organization.
CSPA's Basic Safety Recommendations are almost a photo-copy of USPA BSR's, including requiring freshly-inspected reserves, etc..
CAPS BSRs are almost photo-copies of CSPA and USPA BSRs.
Many Canadian DZs are also affiliated with USPA.

Many Canadian DZOs enforce higher safety standards than CSPA, USPA, etc. For example, Pitt Meadows banned round reserves a decade ago, because thier airport is bordered by the Frazer River. No skydiver has ever landed in the Frazer River and they intend to maintain that record.

I cannot imagine a Canadian DZO allowing anyone to jump without a (certified, recently repacked, etc.) reserve).


5.samadhi

Jul 28, 2012, 12:02 PM
Post #20 of 38 (670 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
the rules are a bit vague in canada. The pilot could still get in trouble if MOT found out what was going on. Would depend a bit on circumstances.

........................................................................

Transport Canada fobs off most of the responsibility for regulating skydiving on CSPA. As long as CSP keeps the fataltity rate low, TC stays out of the business of directly regulating skydiving in Canada. Most years, TC is satisfied with reviewing the books of Canadian DZs.

Canadian Air Regulations require that all skydives - in Canada - be done in accordance with guidelines written by CSPA, CAPS or a similar organization.
CSPA's Basic Safety Recommendations are almost a photo-copy of USPA BSR's, including requiring freshly-inspected reserves, etc..
CAPS BSRs are almost photo-copies of CSPA and USPA BSRs.
Many Canadian DZs are also affiliated with USPA.

Many Canadian DZOs enforce higher safety standards than CSPA, USPA, etc. For example, Pitt Meadows banned round reserves a decade ago, because thier airport is bordered by the Frazer River. No skydiver has ever landed in the Frazer River and they intend to maintain that record.

I cannot imagine a Canadian DZO allowing anyone to jump without a (certified, recently repacked, etc.) reserve).
what about jumping out of a private plane with a base rig on after a food/fuel drop out in the middle of nowhere (ie above the arctic circle)? Would that violate any regulations???


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 28, 2012, 3:47 PM
Post #21 of 38 (645 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... what about jumping out of a private plane with a base rig on after a food/fuel drop out in the middle of nowhere (ie above the arctic circle)? Would that violate any regulations???

........................................................................

You would be hard-pressed to find a privately-registered airplane flying above the Arctic Circle. Transport Canada keeps a close eye on all aircraft operating in the arctic , primarily because of the ridiculously high cost of search and rescue.
Just because yoru plan will be many miles from regualtors ... reduces your chances of getting arrested ... but does not make it any more legal.

Kind of like - if you engage in certain silly sexual practices - outside of Afghanistan - the Taliban will still call you a "sister-f&&&&r."
Hah!
Hah!


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 28, 2012, 8:38 PM
Post #22 of 38 (619 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Canadian Air Regulations require that all skydives - in Canada - be done in accordance with guidelines written by CSPA, CAPS or a similar organization.

Di you recall where that is? I don't recall seeing that. Or is it in one of those vaguer statements (eg, staff instructions) that aren't actually in the Canadian Air Regs?

That NPA 99-148 legislation never did pass, and that required student jumps to follow the plan of some approved organization I seem to recall. But again, that never became law.

As for the Frazer river, I don't know when Pitt Meadows opened, but it sounds like they did just fine through the whole round main and/or round reserve era -- and then banned round reserves once it didn't matter as much.


Premier TomAiello  (D 22400)
Moderator
Jul 28, 2012, 8:55 PM
Post #23 of 38 (615 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Flying a skyrig next to a mountain - no thank you.

Could you explain why?


Skydiving systems are much more complex than BASE systems. This complexity introduces additional chances for delays in the opening sequence (or malfunctions). It is for this reason that skydiving rigs are intended to be deployed at much higher altitudes than BASE rigs.

It's really a question of using a tool designed for the job. If you are intending to deploy your canopy with a few hundred feet of a solid object, there are probably better choices than a skydiving rig designed to be opened with thousands of feet of clear air in every direction.

If I were ever in a situation where I had to deploy a skydiving rig in a proximity flight situation, I'd go straight to the reserve, which would still be more complex than a BASE rig.


Premier TomAiello  (D 22400)
Moderator
Jul 28, 2012, 9:06 PM
Post #24 of 38 (612 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
out of simple curiosity what countries legally allow single parachute systems to be jumped from airplanes.

The UK, apparently.

Anyone else notice the mesh sliders, non-collapsible 42" PC's and bottom skin inlets? The queen also appears to have forgotten to bring along a reserve parachute.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 28, 2012, 10:25 PM
Post #25 of 38 (594 views)
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Re: [TomAiello] single harness/single parachute legality (international)? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Flying a skyrig next to a mountain - no thank you.

Could you explain why?


Skydiving systems are much more complex than BASE systems. This complexity introduces additional chances for delays in the opening sequence (or malfunctions). It is for this reason that skydiving rigs are intended to be deployed at much higher altitudes than BASE rigs.

It's really a question of using a tool designed for the job. If you are intending to deploy your canopy with a few hundred feet of a solid object, there are probably better choices than a skydiving rig designed to be opened with thousands of feet of clear air in every direction.

If I were ever in a situation where I had to deploy a skydiving rig in a proximity flight situation, I'd go straight to the reserve, which would still be more complex than a BASE rig.

Thanks for taking the time to educate an old man.

The canopies they used appear to Eiff Classics. The original Strato Cloud, my first ram air also had the bottom skin vents.

Sparky

http://eiff.com/...ls/manuals_index.htm


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