Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop

 


shibu  (B 37474)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:13 AM
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Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop Can't Post

Age: 24
Sex: Male
Time in Sport: Approximately two months
Total Number of Jumps: Eight
Skydives Within the Last 12 Months: Eight
Cause of Death: Hard impact following low deployment of the main parachute

Why wasn't this a AAD save? According to the USPA, "Investigators inspected the harness and container and found that the automatic activation device (AAD) had activated its cutter but that it had not cut the reserve closing loop. Investigators found the loop intact, still installed in the bottom of the container beside the cutter unit. Investigators concluded that the reserve closing loop had not been routed through the cutter and that this error presumably occurred when the AAD was installed in the container during the previous repack...."

Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my instructor did.

http://www.uspa.org/...Yv0U%2fHsKP48w%3d%3d


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:22 AM
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Re: [shibu] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

 Rigging error that would not be picked up unless the container was opened. Im sure the rigger concerned will be having sleepless nights over it.

Nevertheless, it doesnt negate the fact that an AAD is a backup device only and should never be relied on. The best automatic opener is the jumper himself.

As has been said, an AAD save should often be regarded as a bounce that didnt happen.

Skydiving is literally about taking your life in your own hands....once out the door you are responsible for saving yourself.

Still a tragic event, for all concerned.


(This post was edited by obelixtim on Jul 25, 2012, 5:26 AM)


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:23 AM
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In reply to:

Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my

And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now?


piisfish

Jul 25, 2012, 5:23 AM
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Re: [shibu] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my instructor did.
how do you expect your instructor to check if the reserve loop is properly routed through the cutter ? Shocked In most cases yuo simply can not do that....


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:40 AM
Post #5 of 15 (2155 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my instructor did.
how do you expect your instructor to check if the reserve loop is properly routed through the cutter ? Shocked In most cases you simply can not do that....

Pop it, check it (depending on the rig it may still be in the cutter), close it and seal it.

That'll never happen and honestly, I'm glad... more hands in the pot = more chances for errors.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:40 AM
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Just for reference:
This would refer to the "Fatality at Archway Skydiving Center" incident from 2010.
http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=4137658


shibu  (B 37474)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:41 AM
Post #7 of 15 (2152 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Rigging error that would not be picked up unless the container was opened. Im sure the rigger concerned will be having sleepless nights over it.

Nevertheless, it doesnt negate the fact that an AAD is a backup device only and should never be relied on. The best automatic opener is the jumper himself.

As has been said, an AAD save should often be regarded as a bounce that didnt happen.

Skydiving is literally about taking your life in your own hands....once out the door you are responsible for saving yourself.

Still a tragic event, for all concerned.

Agreed.


shibu  (B 37474)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:44 AM
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my

And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now?

Good point obelixtim & glideangle. I do a better gear check now but wouldn't have picked up on this.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:55 AM
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Re: [shibu] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

Nobody would pick up on this until the reserve repack. That doesn't change the fact that the opening of the reserve by the jumper wasn't in the least impeded.

Used to be that if you jumped out of an airplane, you were dead unless you did something. Of course, we did have more no-pull fatalities in those days. But until the 2000's, the only jumps I ever had an AAD on were my first and second freefalls.

Wendy P.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:57 AM
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:

Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my

And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now?

There are a couple rigs where you can see the closing loop going through (or not) the cutter. (Racer and Reflex, maybe others...) I do not propose that this is intentional in their design, but a convenient side benefit.

But it is true that for most rigs, you have to trust you rigger with regard to how he puts stuff in there... But isn't that what you do with the whole reserve inspection/repack? You trust his seal/signature/word that it is done correctly.

If you want to see what he does, ask to (quietly) watch. Then you will know more and be able to see the loop going through the cutter for yourself.

JW


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 25, 2012, 5:18 PM
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Re: [shibu] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my

And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now?

Good point obelixtim & glideangle. I do a better gear check now but wouldn't have picked up on this.

Honestly for someone with 70 jumps you are showing a serious lack of knowledge on 'what' a gear check can pick up, and also how a reserve is assembled. Do yourself a favour and watch a reserve repack. (Of course it may be poor communication over the internet and you do know your gear)


shibu  (B 37474)

Jul 30, 2012, 1:07 PM
Post #12 of 15 (1634 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Scary stuff. Honestly when I was on jump 8, I was not checking to make sure everything was routed properly to my reserve... although I think/hope my

And exactly how do you check the routing of your reserve closing loop through the cutter now?

Good point obelixtim & glideangle. I do a better gear check now but wouldn't have picked up on this.

Honestly for someone with 70 jumps you are showing a serious lack of knowledge on 'what' a gear check can pick up, and also how a reserve is assembled. Do yourself a favour and watch a reserve repack. (Of course it may be poor communication over the internet and you do know your gear)

Part of it may be internet communication but you are right. I am going to watch a reserve re-pack.

Not that it is an excuse, but my 71 jumps were ~20 with a 2 yr layoff, then ~20 jumps with a 4 yr layoff. Then I had 31 jumps last year. I don't want to let the long layoffs happen again & should be jumping again by this week.

Thanks.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 30, 2012, 1:58 PM
Post #13 of 15 (1608 views)
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Re: [shibu] Scary Stuff.. misrouted reserve closing loop [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am going to watch a reserve re-pack.

AWESOME! You'll learn more than many people know about their gear.

Make sure you coordinate with the rigger before you plan on watching it. It really sucks for someone to bring their rig and ask to watch me repack it, when I hadn't planned on packing it right away.

Also, make sure you're able to stay awake thru it, I've let 3 people watch, one completely passed out, the other two were pretty close to it. It's not the most exciting part of many peoples days.


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Jul 30, 2012, 1:59 PM)


shibu  (B 37474)

Jul 30, 2012, 2:11 PM
Post #14 of 15 (1592 views)
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Thanks for the tips. I'll arrange it in advance & have a redbull.


gregpso  (Student)

Aug 5, 2012, 3:26 AM
Post #15 of 15 (1333 views)
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There are so many ways to bounce in this sport that most starting out do not think off. its amazing the fatality rate is so low !! Pilot diving and hitting you in freefall ...

You pay a senior packer to pack a reserve but they mis route the aad cutter. Your on a student landing and some idiot hot shot crashes into you.. etc etc. When I first started I thought what if the canopy does not open ? (and that was the only way you could go in) I did not believe some one who told me a few years ago greg you can do everything right and still die.... I get it now !



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