Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
are reserve toggles sewn to the risers?

 


virgin-burner

Jul 22, 2012, 6:45 PM
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are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? Can't Post

i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers?

i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!?


PeteS  (D 8230)

Jul 22, 2012, 6:48 PM
Post #2 of 19 (2091 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

RTFM. Some older rigs call for it, some do not.

It's Sunday,and I'm going home..


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 22, 2012, 6:48 PM
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers?

i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!?

Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser.

It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves)




virgin-burner

Jul 22, 2012, 6:52 PM
Post #5 of 19 (2078 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers?

i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!?

Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser.

It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves)

interesting, thanks. that would be to avoid a toggle-fire then, right!?


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 22, 2012, 6:53 PM
Post #6 of 19 (2076 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
In reply to:
i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers?

i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!?

Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser.

It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves)

interesting, thanks. that would be to avoid a toggle-fire then, right!?

Not necessarily, your V3 should have nice strong velcro on the risers/toggles still. If it's getting worn out to the point you're risking a fire, it should be replaced before it get's repacked.


virgin-burner

Jul 22, 2012, 6:56 PM
Post #7 of 19 (2071 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers?

i sat through my last reserve-repack and i could of SWORN thery were NOT sewn. are they!?

Nope, not on most sport rigs, but some riggers out there may put a pass of seal thread (~4.75lb break) thru the toggle and riser.

It's pretty common on bailout rigs and older rigs though. (lots with rounds as reserves)

interesting, thanks. that would be to avoid a toggle-fire then, right!?

Not necessarily, your V3 should have nice strong velcro on the risers/toggles still. If it's getting worn out to the point you're risking a fire, it should be replaced before it get's repacked.

it is actually that strong that at first i was only able to release one side on my first attempt. not as funny as it sounds when you just cutaway from a spinning main from hell that left you dizzy just seconds before!

LaughLaughLaugh


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 22, 2012, 7:00 PM
Post #8 of 19 (2062 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
i've had a discussion this weekend; are the reserve-toggles realls sewn to the risers?

As mentioned, some older rigs are like this. It's handy for rigs that didn't have keepers on the reserve risers for the 'nose' of the toggle. The seal thread would pass through the nose and into the riser to keep it in place and prevent a premature brake release. Pretty old-school stuff.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 22, 2012, 7:04 PM
Post #9 of 19 (2056 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

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it is actually that strong that at first i was only able to release one side on my first attempt. not as funny as it sounds when you just cutaway from a spinning main from hell that left you dizzy just seconds before!

Still should be replaced. IMO using seal thread to tack the toggles to the risers because the velcro is worn out is shotty rigging.

Furthermore I'd be shocked if a 1-2 pass of seal thread would make it that hard of a pull to unstow, makes me wonder what they tacked it with?

I've seen at least a couple Strong Dual Hawks that had the reserve toggles on one side misstowed and it would make for a very hard pull. Unsure
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virgin-burner

Jul 22, 2012, 7:24 PM
Post #10 of 19 (2038 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

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In reply to:
it is actually that strong that at first i was only able to release one side on my first attempt. not as funny as it sounds when you just cutaway from a spinning main from hell that left you dizzy just seconds before!

Still should be replaced. IMO using seal thread to tack the toggles to the risers because the velcro is worn out is shotty rigging.

Furthermore I'd be shocked if a 1-2 pass of seal thread would make it that hard of a pull to unstow, makes me wonder what they tacked it with?

I've seen at least a couple Strong Dual Hawks that had the reserve toggles on one side misstowed and it would make for a very hard pull. Unsure

wait-wait-wait! the velcro was that strong that i could only release one side at first and then had to pump REALLY hard on the other. i'm not the worlds strongest guy, but i wouldnt call myself weak nonetheless.

again, i was under the impression it wasnt tacked when i've had my first cutaway, and i BET i would of noticed if my rigger did when he repacked. i was asking questions on pretty much EVERYTHING he did.

i've seen and was explained about freestows as well on that session; didnt even knew they existed before that. was probably the most educational hour i've spent talking about gear and reserves specifically. Smile


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 22, 2012, 7:27 PM
Post #11 of 19 (2034 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

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wait-wait-wait! the velcro was that strong that i could only release one side at first and then had to pump REALLY hard on the other. i'm not the worlds strongest guy, but i wouldnt call myself weak nonetheless.

Try pulling backwards instead of straight down. Wink Peel the velcro, not sheer it.


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Jul 22, 2012, 7:28 PM)


DaVinciflies

Jul 22, 2012, 9:59 PM
Post #12 of 19 (1951 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll never understand how people will jump equipment they don't understand and yet trust it to save their life..


Electronaut  (C 38872)

Jul 22, 2012, 10:02 PM
Post #13 of 19 (1947 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sigmas have a pass of seal thread at the link IIRC, to keep the un-cascaded brake lines organized. Not a toggle I know.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 22, 2012, 10:03 PM
Post #14 of 19 (1944 views)
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Re: [Electronaut] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sigmas have a pass of seal thread at the link IIRC, to keep the un-cascaded brake lines organized.

That they do. Wink


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 22, 2012, 10:29 PM
Post #15 of 19 (1928 views)
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Re: [Electronaut] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sigmas have a pass of seal thread at the link IIRC, to keep the un-cascaded brake lines organized. Not a toggle I know.

..................................................................

Part of that is because PD 360R steering lines join at the bottom.
The other reason is that Sigmas (and Vectors and Strongs) used MIL SPEC L-bar connector links on their reserve risers. If the L-bar links are installed incorrectly, the end cap of the bar can easily snag a steering line.
Ergo, why the Sigma manual recommends tying the steering lines with red seal thread.

Smarter riggers install tandem reserve L-bar links with the rounded "elbow" outboard.

I have long wondered why UPT does not sew on a second steering line - at the top of the riser so that it flops through the slot on the L-bar link?
Should I apply for a patent?


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jul 23, 2012, 4:41 PM
Post #16 of 19 (1669 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

The original ram air reserves, Safety Flyer, Safety Star and Swift had toggles made with tubular nylon with a 'set' grommet sewn to it for a ring. There was no velcro on the toggle, no toggle hood. Also the original guide rings were 1". After the brakes were set the toggle was tacked with safety thread because there was NOTHING else to hold it in place. i have lots of these toggles floating around the shop.

This practice continued to standardized guide ring placement, smaller guide rings, and modern type toggles. Rigging Innovations used to punch the nose of the toggle with a harness needle so it was easier to put a small needle with the safety thread through the toggle. On other rigs I would simply catch the edge of one layer of the nose.

Some older riggers still do this. While you would notice the rigger doing it you will NOT feel it when releasing your reserve brakes.

Page 16 of the manual here.
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/...rus-orion-manualpdf/

page "65" of this manual for RI
http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/...1rgrinstructionspdf/


(This post was edited by councilman24 on Jul 23, 2012, 8:48 PM)


virgin-burner

Jul 23, 2012, 7:12 PM
Post #17 of 19 (1636 views)
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Re: [councilman24] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

very informative, thanks! Smile


base283  (D 15343)

Jul 25, 2012, 9:27 PM
Post #18 of 19 (1476 views)
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Re: [virgin-burner] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just want to add this. If your reserve riser/toggle Velcro is getting worn out, It aint the Velcro that is the problem.
take care,
space


virgin-burner

Jul 25, 2012, 9:53 PM
Post #19 of 19 (1471 views)
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Re: [base283] are reserve toggles sewn to the risers? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just want to add this. If your reserve riser/toggle Velcro is getting worn out, It aint the Velcro that is the problem.
take care,
space

LaughLaughLaugh



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