Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All

pj_jumper  (A 12012)

Jul 18, 2012, 8:26 PM
Post #1 of 150 (5610 views)
Shortcut
Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid Can't Post

people should watch this video i have dug up as an example of what NOT to do. i would like to think this jumper was joking with his description of this video but it is apparent he is not. jumpers like this obviously snuck through the system with very little or incorrect canopy training. his actions and analysis of his own actions took me aback. see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFNsQ6JlZAs


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 18, 2012, 8:43 PM
Post #2 of 150 (5506 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
people should watch this video i have dug up as an example of what NOT to do. i would like to think this jumper was joking with his description of this video but it is apparent he is not. jumpers like this obviously snuck through the system with very little or incorrect canopy training. his actions and analysis of his own actions took me aback. see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFNsQ6JlZAs

He caused the knot himself, the excess wrapped around the toggle and knotted up, not the first time that's happened.

Furthermore, at that point it may well have become a necessary cutaway... I for one have no intentions of criticizing someones decision to go to their reserve. (other than just bullshitting with them/joking)

He caused the mal, sure... he blamed it on the packer (which is no excuse, you really should set/stow your excess and cock your PC before you plop it down and walk away) but maybe he didn't realize what he did caused it and not the packer.

Yes, people exist out there with thousands and thousands of jumps that cannot properly hook up a canopy to the risers/dbag/pc. The great part is it keeps riggers like me with some income (either by fixing their screw up or by repacking their reserves!)Tongue


(This post was edited by theonlyski on Jul 18, 2012, 8:44 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 18, 2012, 8:49 PM
Post #3 of 150 (5500 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

You should show a lot more experience before you set out what the examples should or shouldn't be.

This jumper evaluated his canopy and found it was unable to pass a control check. The made a great decision.

Could they have tried something else? Sure, however they followed a plan of action any student would follow. I would suggest they rose to the level of their training. Good for them.

Rigging in midair is never a good idea.


JohnRich  (D License)

Jul 18, 2012, 9:04 PM
Post #4 of 150 (5484 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

The guy seemed to handle it amazingly well and very calmly. He saved his handles, and held them in his teeth to free his hands to fly the reserve. The first thing he did on landing was to stow his reserve brake toggles - not something I would think important at that moment. He seems like a real veteran, likely not his first cut-away.

I think you're way out of line to call this guy some kind of unsafe, incompetent idiot because of this one video. Sooner or later you'll have a little problem like that, and we'll be waiting to return the favor. Wink

The canopy was flying straight and level, with open land everywhere - I would have landed it. But he made a good call, and it was his decision to make.

He could have stood up after landing so that his buddies still in the air didn't think he was injured because he was just sitting there on his ass not doing anything.

But OMG! There was an old fart without a helmet! And another maniac did a back flip at breakoff! Now there's some real idiots! Call the S&TA!


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Jul 18, 2012, 9:11 PM)


in2jumping  (C License)

Jul 18, 2012, 9:31 PM
Post #5 of 150 (5456 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i have dug up as an example of what NOT to do

Jumps: 150
Years: 2
Swooping (110 jumps)
Crossfire 2 139 ft (1.40 lbs/ft)


Tongue


(This post was edited by in2jumping on Jul 18, 2012, 9:42 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 19, 2012, 12:39 AM
Post #6 of 150 (5402 views)
Shortcut
Re: [diablopilot] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You should show a lot more experience before you set out what the examples should or shouldn't be.

This jumper evaluated his canopy and found it was unable to pass a control check. The made a great decision.

Could they have tried something else? Sure, however they followed a plan of action any student would follow. I would suggest they rose to the level of their training. Good for them.

Rigging in midair is never a good idea.

+10


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Jul 19, 2012, 12:41 AM
Post #7 of 150 (5400 views)
Shortcut
Re: [in2jumping] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

LaughLaughLaugh
LaughLaughLaugh
LaughLaughLaugh

Container: Wonderhog
Main: Super Evolution 120 ft (3.50 lbs/ft)
Reserve: Nova 120 ft (3.50 lbs/ft)
AAD: FXC Model 12000

You gotta be an old fart.
LaughLaughLaughTongue


CornishChris  (C 102981)

Jul 19, 2012, 3:48 AM
Post #8 of 150 (5359 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

He also kept checking his alti and made a decision at his hard deck. Many would land it but I thought that was a pretty textbook chop. Well done him.


piisfish

Jul 19, 2012, 4:09 AM
Post #9 of 150 (5339 views)
Shortcut
Re: [popsjumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
LaughLaughLaugh
LaughLaughLaugh
LaughLaughLaugh

Container: Wonderhog
Main: Super Evolution 120 ft (3.50 lbs/ft)
Reserve: Nova 120 ft (3.50 lbs/ft)
AAD: FXC Model 12000

You gotta be an old fat fart.
LaughLaughLaughTongue
FIFY


pj_jumper  (A 12012)

Jul 19, 2012, 4:21 AM
Post #10 of 150 (5330 views)
Shortcut
Re: [in2jumping] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

My question here is first he said "canopy was uncontroleable" which is clearly not the case. He had Unstowed his toggles for 15 seconds before he even did enough Of a control check to discover his right side was knotted. Control check? He never actually did one! C'mon. A student would have done a "pump the breaks" and caught this at a higher and safer altitude.

Then he accused the packer. Which shows he doesnt even know or care to find out what really caused the hang up. He then flew his ENTIRE reserve approach in half breaks had no flare left on landing. Where he was taught to fly any canopy like that I would be afraid to know. Plus the guys main was a 7 cell. land on the rears.

Criticize me and my set up? I have taken the advice of dz pros who know me have watched me fly over 90% of my jumps. This canopy and loading may get me flamed for my expirience level but dont worry it is a calculated descision. I do respect your concern.

Thank you for your comments everybody.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 19, 2012, 4:46 AM
Post #11 of 150 (5309 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Criticize me and my set up? I have taken the advice of dz pros who know me have watched me fly over 90% of my jumps. This canopy and loading may get me flamed for my expirience level but dont worry it is a calculated descision

So what you're suggesting is that we shouldn't judge you based on what we see of you on the internet? That the reality of your situation is different than it may appear online?

Every considered taking your own advice?

Regardless of what you thought of how the mal happened, what the jumper thought of it, or the timely-ness of his response, it's hard to fault the outcome, that being a safe landing.

Did you think to give the guy credit for pulling high enough to have time under canopy before reaching his hard-deck? How about for being aware of his altitude at every stage of the game? What about realizing his limitations and knowing that he personally had a better chance at a safe landing under a reserve?

Of coruse not. Beyond that, there's no 'calculated' decision when you claim to have 110 swoops and 150 total jumps. Even if you had 10 swoops and 150 total jummps, that's still not enough to have started swooping, whoever you are. Similarly, your WL isn't appropriate for someone at your level, regardless of how great you, or anyone else, seems to think you are.

Keep in mind that non of your 'DZ pros' are the ones who have to hit the ground hard when you screw up. It's easy for them to tell you one thing or another because they have no dog in that fight. Their involvement ends when they're done flapping their gums, while you have to live with the possibly painful and lifelong consequnces.

The way you were so quick to defend your position shows that you are aware that it's well outside the 'norm', and I would question the judgement of anyone who would willfully operate that way in an area proven to kill and injure more jumpers than any other facet of the sport. Additionally, look at the responses your post got, and maybe you can see that your outlook on the sport may be a little skewed in the wrong direction, and that an adjustment might be in order.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Jul 19, 2012, 5:08 AM
Post #12 of 150 (5289 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

Its OK though... he's carrying a camera, so if (when?) he biffs, there'll be a good video of his awsome setup... Crazy

JW


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 19, 2012, 5:31 AM
Post #13 of 150 (5263 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

OH, you should have told us you have "Mad Skillz" in the first place.

That makes everything different.

Continue DIGIT.


mr2mk1g  (C 103449)

Jul 19, 2012, 5:58 AM
Post #14 of 150 (5232 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Criticize me and my set up? I have taken the advice of dz pros who know me have watched me fly over 90% of my jumps.

Really, is this a troll? That has to be THE most cliche line ever on this forum. Have you any idea how many people have busted out that exact line only to wind up in the incidents forum a few months down the line?

What was the name of that legend from the swoop threads who broke himself and came back to his own incident thread a changed man?


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Jul 19, 2012, 6:10 AM
Post #15 of 150 (5213 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
people should watch this video i have dug up as an example of what NOT to do. i would like to think this jumper was joking with his description of this video but it is apparent he is not. jumpers like this obviously snuck through the system with very little or incorrect canopy training. his actions and analysis of his own actions took me aback. see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFNsQ6JlZAs

The guy in the saddle thought he needed to chop the main. The guy lived. Guess he wasn't wrong.

Just for fun, what would you suggest he should have done?


pj_jumper  (A 12012)

Jul 19, 2012, 6:12 AM
Post #16 of 150 (5210 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnRich] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

Points are noted. I appreciate the feedback.


Mark4  (D 8136)

Jul 19, 2012, 6:15 AM
Post #17 of 150 (5207 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

PD consider it a malfunction as per the article here.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/ControlSysMalf.pdf

From the article
"A misrouted steering line, entangled steering line, or any other type of problem involving the control system may severely limit your ability to control the canopy and should be considered a serious, life-threatening malfunction."

Too many people have died by not dealing with this type of malfunction, hence the article from PD.

IMO there was nothing wrong with chopping this. For me it would depend on how much brake was applied, the right toggle is definitely not up against the ring. Personally, I would fly my canopy on rears but not with one brake partly applied.

Glad you raised this though, its a good reminder to everyone not to be complacent on opening.


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Jul 19, 2012, 6:27 AM
Post #18 of 150 (5188 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Plus the guys main was a 7 cell. land on the rears

Hmm.... Given that the canopy would not fly straight without significant compensation with the brake on the opposite side, he may have assessed that attempting a landing on rears would be too dangerous. There is a huge difference between landing on rears with normally functioning brakes, or a broken brake line (canopy flying straight), and attempting to land on rears with a canopy that won't fly straight without heavy input.

We all make mistakes. This guy made a mistake with his toggle. However, he managed it in a manner that kept him from injury.

May you be able to manage all your mistakes with the same outcome.


theonlyski  (D License)

Jul 19, 2012, 6:43 AM
Post #19 of 150 (5163 views)
Shortcut
Re: [GLIDEANGLE] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Plus the guys main was a 7 cell. land on the rears

Hmm.... Given that the canopy would not fly straight without significant compensation with the brake on the opposite side, he may have assessed that attempting a landing on rears would be too dangerous. There is a huge difference between landing on rears with normally functioning brakes, or a broken brake line (canopy flying straight), and attempting to land on rears with a canopy that won't fly straight without heavy input.

+1

But it sounds like the OP knows more about canopy flight than anyone else here.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jul 19, 2012, 6:50 AM
Post #20 of 150 (5157 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Plus the guys main was a 7 cell. land on the rears.

He may well have been able to keep it straight and use his rears, but keeping it straight with heavy input might be OK up high, but close to the ground any turbulence he encounters could collapse the canopy completely.

Or did you not consider that possibility?. Its likely he did.....


adamUK  (C 104423)

Jul 19, 2012, 6:54 AM
Post #21 of 150 (5150 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
land on the rears.
Always trust your rears

In reply to:
dont worry it is a calculated descision.
Cause you are a grown ass man and can make your own decisions!
Well done, good sir. Well done.

You should continue this conversation here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/sofpidarf/ Crazy


(This post was edited by adamUK on Jul 19, 2012, 6:56 AM)


tsisson  (D 19283)

Jul 19, 2012, 7:10 AM
Post #22 of 150 (5137 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Criticize me and my set up? I have taken the advice of dz pros who know me have watched me fly over 90% of my jumps. This canopy and loading may get me flamed for my expirience level but dont worry it is a calculated descision..

I'm don't claim to be the most experienced jumper in the world...but in the 18 years I have been jumping, I have heard this same line every year.

4 friends do not jump anymore. 1 dead, 1 in wheelchair, 1 permanently limps after a 3 month stay in a rehab clinic, and one seems fine but physically cannot jump from chronic pain associated from 2 femur breaks on the same jump.

All of them hooked in on little canopies that they had no business jumping, all under 500 jumps experience. All of them chattering about how they had special skills and were the exception, and were "ready".

These are just the close friends that have said the same things at about the same experience level as you...and do not include the ones I've seen hit the ground but didn't know.

We'd like you to stick around and become an old and wise presence on your DZ...my advice, let the dead and injured's final lessons sink in, and SLOW DOWN!


pj_jumper  (A 12012)

Jul 19, 2012, 7:56 AM
Post #23 of 150 (5087 views)
Shortcut
Re: [tsisson] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

Advice noted. By swooping I only mean attempts at accelerated landings. Be it front riser dives. Or 90s. But always with altitude to spare. The jumper in this video lacks certain understandings. I highly doubt much besides altitude, his toggle and damn packers went through his mind


ChrisL  (C 35323)

Jul 19, 2012, 8:13 AM
Post #24 of 150 (5060 views)
Shortcut
Re: [pj_jumper] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I highly doubt much besides altitude, his toggle and damn packers went through his mind

Are you the packer he blamed, or friends with the packer or something?

You seem strangely antagonistic towards this guy.

Doesn't seem like the kind of response one would have toward a random guy in a random video you found on YouTube Crazy


pj_jumper  (A 12012)

Jul 19, 2012, 8:36 AM
Post #25 of 150 (5032 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ChrisL] Unnecessary cutaway. Very Dangerous and stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

Haha. Just an example of reserve abuse that caught my attention. Thought it should be pointed out.


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)