Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
flyby canopies ettiquette

 

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5.samadhi

Jul 14, 2012, 4:59 PM
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flyby canopies ettiquette Can't Post

whats your opinion about flying by canopies while flying your wingsuit?

I'd love to hear the ettiquette, safety, etc of it in your opinion, your dropzone's rules, whatever.

personally I think the same boundaries should be kept as you keep with other canopies while you are under canopy (that is you should consider yourself under a canopy and not unnecessarily get close to somebody under canopy)..

unless you have discussed prior with the canopy pilot then its all fair in the fun of getting as close as possible you want (some people even dock on canopies apparently!)

I've never heard this discussed before so would love to hear input..


Martini  (D 23756)

Jul 14, 2012, 8:43 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

What's really fun is to buzz a canopy from behind and drag a foot on the topskin as you go by. Another fun one is to fly up behind the canopy pilot and flare the wingsuit just in time to grab the lines and stand on his shoulders. There are lots of variations, be creative.


The111  (D 29246)

Jul 14, 2012, 8:54 PM
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Re: [Martini] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another fun one is to fly up behind the canopy pilot and flare the wingsuit just in time to grab the lines

I believe that is called wingsuit swooping.


Monko760  (B 38424)

Jul 14, 2012, 9:10 PM
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Re: [The111] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems like you are getting your troll on samadhi.

Either way this looks interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyvh8D55__Y

edit: even better http://vimeo.com/15776958
RIP JT


(This post was edited by Monko760 on Jul 14, 2012, 9:17 PM)


Martini  (D 23756)

Jul 14, 2012, 9:23 PM
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Re: [Monko760] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Seems like you are getting your troll on samadhi.

Possibly but I thought his post was a troll. No?


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 14, 2012, 9:28 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Common etiquette is that you are way under-experienced to even think about doing that. Wait another few hundred wingsuit jumps and get some decent experience/skills first, before you use an other human being for target practice.


5.samadhi

Jul 15, 2012, 6:52 AM
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Re: [mccordia] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

interesting! This kind of attitude (like it is unsafe) I have not found yet...but I am sure some people agree with you Mccordia. I have been asked to do fly-bys because it is "cool to watch". I honestly dont feel comfortable concentrating on a fly-by that low around deployment altitude (I deploy 3k-4k where most flyby's would occur).

Mccordia, do people at your dropzone also find it to be unsafe to do 2-way stacks with CRW canopies or do they find it unsafe to do relative work with somewhat loaded elliptical canopies??? I reckon its about the same level of safety risk as a wingsuit fly-by.


(This post was edited by 5.samadhi on Jul 15, 2012, 6:53 AM)


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Jul 15, 2012, 7:29 AM
Post #8 of 43 (2772 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
interesting! This kind of attitude (like it is unsafe) I have not found yet...but I am sure some people agree with you Mccordia. I have been asked to do fly-bys because it is "cool to watch". I honestly dont feel comfortable concentrating on a fly-by that low around deployment altitude (I deploy 3k-4k where most flyby's would occur).

Mccordia, do people at your dropzone also find it to be unsafe to do 2-way stacks with CRW canopies or do they find it unsafe to do relative work with somewhat loaded elliptical canopies??? I reckon its about the same level of safety risk as a wingsuit fly-by.

Check this out @ 2:43 to get an idea of what is possible.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 15, 2012, 7:46 AM
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
do people at your dropzone also find it to be unsafe to do 2-way stacks with CRW canopies or do they find it unsafe to do relative work with somewhat loaded elliptical canopies??? I reckon its about the same level of safety risk as a wingsuit fly-by.

With this line of thinking, please do us all a favor and reveal your real name and where you jump. I'm sure there are more than a couple people who would like to avoid both you, and anywhere they might end up in a plane with you.


5.samadhi

Jul 15, 2012, 8:22 AM
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Re: [DSE] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
interesting! This kind of attitude (like it is unsafe) I have not found yet...but I am sure some people agree with you Mccordia. I have been asked to do fly-bys because it is "cool to watch". I honestly dont feel comfortable concentrating on a fly-by that low around deployment altitude (I deploy 3k-4k where most flyby's would occur).

Mccordia, do people at your dropzone also find it to be unsafe to do 2-way stacks with CRW canopies or do they find it unsafe to do relative work with somewhat loaded elliptical canopies??? I reckon its about the same level of safety risk as a wingsuit fly-by.

Check this out @ 2:43 to get an idea of what is possible.
horribly graphic, terrible.


5.samadhi

Jul 15, 2012, 8:25 AM
Post #11 of 43 (2755 views)
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Re: [davelepka] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
do people at your dropzone also find it to be unsafe to do 2-way stacks with CRW canopies or do they find it unsafe to do relative work with somewhat loaded elliptical canopies??? I reckon its about the same level of safety risk as a wingsuit fly-by.

With this line of thinking, please do us all a favor and reveal your real name and where you jump. I'm sure there are more than a couple people who would like to avoid both you, and anywhere they might end up in a plane with you.
choke back your indignation, stop, and read. Did I ever say that I thought it was a good idea to buzz anybody? I was asking what people's ettiquettes were about the manuever...because I have read a wingsuit instructor on this site say he likes to do it (skymonkeyOne).

Again, personally I do not want to get any closer to somebody under my wingsuit as I would normally under canopy. That is, I like to give clearance.

Just slow down, Dave. You're too jumpy Sly


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 15, 2012, 8:59 AM
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Again, personally I do not want to get any closer to somebody under my wingsuit as I would normally under canopy

This alone is reason enough to steer well clear of you. What you're missing here is the pattern of behavior that you exhibit.

Let's remember that when you first started posting, you had recently returned to jumping. I don't recall the exact details, but both before you stopped and after you resumed jumping, you were jumping at a much higher than average WL, and didn't seem to think anything of the advice you were given to the contrary.

Moving forward, you start wingsuiting, and almost immediately begin flying a suit that others remarked was too much suit for your experience.

In both cases you seemed to believe that the generally accepted guidelines in the community for things like canopy size and WL, ands wingsuit progression don't apply to you.

Similarly, you've revealed that you make your skydiving decisions based on what you believe are the best choices for big wall BASE jumpers, as you intend to be one 'some day', paying no attention to the fact that you are currently skydiving, and not big wall BASE jumping.

It's this pattern of behavoir, where you don't seem to think that the 'conventional wisdom' applies to you, combined with the statement that you can't see any difference between the protocal of flying two canopies togeher and flying a wingsuit past an open canopy, that leads me to believe you don't have the common sense of a tin can, and that I don't want to be anywhere near you in an aircarft or in the sky, and I think others share my feelings.


The111  (D 29246)

Jul 15, 2012, 11:41 AM
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
do people at your dropzone also find it to be unsafe to do 2-way stacks with CRW canopies or do they find it unsafe to do relative work with somewhat loaded elliptical canopies??? I reckon its about the same level of safety risk as a wingsuit fly-by.

Yes, and standing next to a motorcycle in a parking lot is as dangerous as having one blow by you on the highway doing 180mph+. (In case it was not clear for all readers... that was sarcasm).

I am not sure how much effort you put into finding ridiculous things to say, but you keep managing to top the last one with each new post... I really hope this is trolling and not things you actually believe.


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 15, 2012, 12:13 PM
Post #14 of 43 (2668 views)
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Re: [The111] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

'swoop' a tiny canopy into the ground at a low experience level of 100 jumps, and you kill or injure just yourself. The ground wont care.

Swoop a wingsuit into a canopy and you kill another person (or two), plus get wingsuit flying and tandemjumping put on hold due to FAA investigation. Costing not just lives, but also millions of dolars for affected DZs.

I indeed suggest you have some actual experience at doing something (2 to 3 hours of flying experience is very little) before doing dangerous to even stupid things in an activity that should be seen as a planned stunt for trained/experienced skydivers vs fun thing to 'try'

Your attitude in the few posts you have shows the exact reason why we will see more and more DZs creating rules against wingsuit flying.

Get some skills before you try showing of....every jump is fun, and can learn you a ton of new things. Take it slow and gradually work towards certain goals, instead of starting with the goals without the skills to execute them properly.

Talk to Sangi and listen to his lesson on what rushing into thing prematurely can lead to.
And he is far from the only example. Whats the rush dude? Take it easy...


monkycndo  (D License)

Jul 15, 2012, 12:17 PM
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Re: [The111] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

I am not sure how much effort you put into finding ridiculous things to say, but you keep managing to top the last one with each new post... I really hope this is trolling and not things you actually believe.

I think this should be 5dot's profile picture.


Deisel  (D 31661)

Jul 15, 2012, 12:19 PM
Post #16 of 43 (2659 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Just FYI - the WS instr you speak of is a guy named Chuck Blue and a personal friend and mentor of mine. He has been doing this shit for decades (literally). He can do shit in a wing suit that you couldnt attempt in a wild dream. And once again, if you did a little research you'd see that USPA is already looking into this. There's a Parachutist article from a few months back that discusses this very topic in depth.

Not looking to offend or insult - just trying to put it in perspective.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jul 15, 2012, 1:27 PM
Post #17 of 43 (2626 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

 Sammy stop poking a stick at the hysteria mongers.


5.samadhi

Jul 15, 2012, 2:19 PM
Post #18 of 43 (2602 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

^ haha

everybody is so quick to jump down my throat because they THINK I am talking about buzzing somebody under my wingsuit. And DSE posted the most graphic video ever.

Thats the summary of the thread in case you didnt want to read.

If you want to follow the intent of the thread then we can talk about ettiquette of fly-bys, what YOU think about yourself (especially if you're doing them!).

A highly respected wingsuit instructor posted about how he has fun doing it. And nobody else talks about what rules we should follow as a community (safe distances, etc).

THAT (not talking about an important aspect of our flight pattern) is what will get USPA and the FAA regulating wingsuiters.


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Jul 15, 2012, 2:33 PM
Post #19 of 43 (2590 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Flying your wingsuit into canopy traffic isn't a standard flight pattern.

Buzzing an open canopy is a risky stunt and should be considered as such. Not something you just do out of a whim.

The average wingsuiter should simply avoid the airspace occupied by open canopies from the same load.


Deisel  (D 31661)

Jul 15, 2012, 2:37 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure - lets address the OP.

I'm of the opinion that wing suit fly-bys be complety unlimited regarding distances (no BSRs), just no tandems. BUT it should only be done by the most experienced among us. The control should be of WHO is allowed to do it, not so much HOW its done.

My 2.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jul 15, 2012, 3:35 PM
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Re: [VectorBoy] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

 I know the WSI you speak of. I have flown with him. I know he posted in this forum years ago ( 03) about how close he gets to canopies. I know he changed his puplic opinion on this same subject during a very similar thread back on 09. That one not so innocent. That one was designed to gather dirt not opinions.

There was some hysteria about a a tandem strike " out west" that was not substantiated and may have been a tandem collapse with no contact. Or it could have been a tandem scare with a 1/4 mile separation between tandem and wingsuit. Both the thread and hysteria were started by..... you guessed it.

Non of this is doing the forum any good. If you want jollys go read the old posts they're a hoot.


5.samadhi

Jul 15, 2012, 3:38 PM
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Re: [VectorBoy] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

alright...you're right those old days are gone Laugh

now lets get back to discussing which is better phoenix-fly or tonysuits.


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Jul 15, 2012, 3:55 PM
Post #23 of 43 (2544 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

 The old days are not gone.

It is just that those ( That) same hysteria monger was at it then hard core and still at it now. Just like pollution, never going away.

Back then it was tandem flybys now the angle is tail strikes with emphasis on numerous near strikes. Each topic involves the ear of one BOD member or more. Don't feed the monster.

To answer your question Tony suits is better. You don't have to wait a year for their biggest suit and they are not trying to destroy wingsuiting in America with regulation.


(This post was edited by VectorBoy on Jul 15, 2012, 4:40 PM)


rnicks  (A License)

Jul 15, 2012, 5:22 PM
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Re: [DSE] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice story! Was that a premature at 4:25?


uberchris  (A License)

Jul 15, 2012, 5:48 PM
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Re: [rnicks] flyby canopies ettiquette [In reply to] Can't Post

so if a person were to bang out say 75-100 wingsuit jumps on an old skyflyer, to the point where you can really fly that thing in dives, max flight, etc., would transitioning into a T-bird be an acceptable progression?

the skyflyer, from what everyone says, is sort of a beginner/intermediate suit in itself................not the best intro suit, but has some decent level of performance.............


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