Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings

 

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5.samadhi

Jul 10, 2012, 4:52 PM
Post #1 of 42 (1888 views)
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Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings Can't Post

Would love input from anybody with experience.

What is the benefit to collapsing wings and deploying with an arch?

What is the benefit of deploying in full flight?

I seem to have better heading control while deploying in full flight, and also I seem to be able to enjoy flying a little longer since the deployment takes less altitude compared to collapsing wings and deploying with an arch.

Is there something inherently dangerous about deploying while in full flight? Caveat in place that I am clicking heels for a wave-off (even when I solo to wire muscle memory).


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 10, 2012, 5:05 PM
Post #2 of 42 (1875 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

Aside from losing less altitude on deployment (which only matters in the base enviroment) there isnt any real use in skydiving when pulling at normal/safe/legal altitudes.

A full flight pull can lead to worse openings in case of asymetry, or severly hard openings compared to normal pulls with a drop/delay. But with practice can be a fine/normal deployment technique on any WS skydive for sure. But in terms of need/ease a normal pull is probably preferred.


BMichaeli  (C License)

Jul 10, 2012, 5:54 PM
Post #3 of 42 (1864 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dropzone.com/...1;page=unread#unread

Wink


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Jul 10, 2012, 7:48 PM
Post #4 of 42 (1840 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

I found bigger suits are harder to collapse so i started pulling full flights... lose stuff all alti but then why one and only sport chop was from a normal container and full flight pull and a pilot 117 loaded at 1.6... I still pull full flight sometimes but decided to work on collapsing bigger suits better too...


mr_bird  (C License)

Jul 11, 2012, 12:12 AM
Post #5 of 42 (1795 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is there something inherently dangerous about deploying while in full flight?
If you mean deploying ir really full flight (without decreasing horisontal speed and angle of flight), in case of flight for distance or/and speed it can be pretty painfull. I tried to deploy in such way few times and it nearly killed me. Also I've got a twist few times.
But if you mean deploying just without collapsing of wingsuit as much as possible with decreasing speed a little, everything should be ok. The only thing you should pay attention - incresing of PC eclipse probability.


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Jul 11, 2012, 1:08 AM
Post #6 of 42 (1774 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're really pulling from full flight i.e. you're not decelerating your forward speed at all be prepared to get spanked one day.


MrCat  (C License)

Jul 11, 2012, 1:46 AM
Post #7 of 42 (1763 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you're really pulling from full flight i.e. you're not decelerating your forward speed at all be prepared to get spanked one day.

That did not look fun !!!


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Jul 11, 2012, 2:19 AM
Post #8 of 42 (1755 views)
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Re: [mr_bird] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Is there something inherently dangerous about deploying while in full flight?
If you mean deploying ir really full flight (without decreasing horisontal speed and angle of flight), in case of flight for distance or/and speed it can be pretty painfull. I tried to deploy in such way few times and it nearly killed me. Also I've got a twist few times.
But if you mean deploying just without collapsing of wingsuit as much as possible with decreasing speed a little, everything should be ok. The only thing you should pay attention - incresing of PC eclipse probability.

There is quite much of FUD about full flight deployment.

First of all if you use common sense for deployment speed you are in the speed range of sub-terminal deployment. I can cruise over 200 km/h horizontal speed, but I'm not deploying from that.

Your canopy does not care about the angle of deployment, just the relative wind, _but_if you have a canopy with snappy openings you might kiss your knees, because of the whip slash.

If you jump a snivelly canopy FF pull can be ok.

I went back to "classic" deployment when I started to jump my Stealth. I got knot on the bridle several times. I got no knots when I deployed from full flight.

My procedure is wave, pull and get back to flight as long the canopy takes it over.

Pro's:
  • less burble, cleaner deployment

  • faster deployment, not that important in skydiving


  • Con's:
  • bigger chance to get line twist

  • a snappy opening might hurt more


  • Yes, I got 2 cut-away from a line-twist, both were from pulling full flight and jumping an elliptical canopy.

    Full flight deployment is not recommended by any manufacturer.
    "Classic" deployment is the way for student and beginners or someone jumping a fast opening canopy.


    za_skydiver  (E License)

    Jul 11, 2012, 2:59 AM
    Post #9 of 42 (1740 views)
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    Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    FWIW I've heard of people flipping through their risers from full flight deployments....

    If you look at the video that Arviotus posted, you can see he is not far off from that.


    mccordia  (D 94775)

    Jul 11, 2012, 4:50 AM
    Post #10 of 42 (1704 views)
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    Re: [za_skydiver] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    FWIW I've heard of people flipping through their risers from full flight deployments....

    Thats usually more related to bad bodyposition (bending at the hip, tucking chin into the chest) basically initiating a frontloop.


    kallend  (D 23151)

    Jul 11, 2012, 4:51 AM
    Post #11 of 42 (1702 views)
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    Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers.


    Butters  (C 37840)

    Jul 11, 2012, 5:52 AM
    Post #12 of 42 (1684 views)
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    Re: [kallend] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers.

    The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair.


    kallend  (D 23151)

    Jul 11, 2012, 5:59 AM
    Post #13 of 42 (1682 views)
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    Re: [Butters] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers.

    The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair.

    IMO flairing and bleeding off most of your horizontal speed doesn't count as "full flight", any more than flying a canopy in brakes counts as "full flight".


    Butters  (C 37840)

    Jul 11, 2012, 7:23 AM
    Post #14 of 42 (1653 views)
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    Re: [kallend] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers.

    The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair.

    IMO flairing and bleeding off most of your horizontal speed doesn't count as "full flight", any more than flying a canopy in brakes counts as "full flight".

    Semantics ... Crazy Deployment should be at some point after additional horizontal speed from flair is bled off and no horizontal speed remains. The method I described loses the least amount of altitude while still minimizing the risk of a hard opening. Do you have a problem with this method besides semantics?


    kallend  (D 23151)

    Jul 11, 2012, 7:56 AM
    Post #15 of 42 (1640 views)
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    Re: [Butters] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    I don't like deploying in forward flight because it always makes me feel as if I'm going to flip through the risers.

    The only people I've known to flip through the risers did it because they deployed head low ... not because they deployed in full flight. If you want to deploy in full flight (and not get spanked) then do it when you've bled off most of your horizontal speed after a flair.

    IMO flairing and bleeding off most of your horizontal speed doesn't count as "full flight", any more than flying a canopy in brakes counts as "full flight".

    Semantics ... Crazy Deployment should be at some point after additional horizontal speed from flair is bled off and no horizontal speed remains. The method I described loses the least amount of altitude while still minimizing the risk of a hard opening. Do you have a problem with this method besides semantics?

    I only wish to clarify what EXACTLY is meant by the questioner. If different responders interpret "full flight" differently then we get nowhere with the answers to the question.


    The111  (D 29246)

    Jul 11, 2012, 9:51 AM
    Post #16 of 42 (1610 views)
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    Re: [phoenixlpr] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    Your canopy does not care about the angle of deployment, just the relative wind, _but_if you have a canopy with snappy openings you might kiss your knees, because of the whip slash.

    Right, to clarify on this, your canopy does not care but your body does care. You will get a certain amount of linear deceleration from your canopy, based on total speed when you deploy. You will get rotational deceleration based on what angle the lines come off your back. Rotational deceleration can and will hurt/main/kill if the conditions are right. Not saying it's common or likely, just possible. For this reason, I try to minimize that angle, i.e. I collapse and sink, or if I don't have time for that, I stall my wingsuit and get very head high (this is not a beginner move though).


    Butters  (C 37840)

    Jul 11, 2012, 1:16 PM
    Post #17 of 42 (1556 views)
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    Re: [kallend] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    I only wish to clarify what EXACTLY is meant by the questioner.

    So what exactly is full flight?


    Butters  (C 37840)

    Jul 11, 2012, 1:18 PM
    Post #18 of 42 (1554 views)
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    Re: [The111] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    I stall my wingsuit and get very head high (this is not a beginner move though).

    This is definitely not a beginner move since you lose a considerable amount of control when stalled.


    5.samadhi

    Jul 11, 2012, 3:01 PM
    Post #19 of 42 (1529 views)
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    Re: [Butters] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    thanks for the comments...butters to clarify you are talking about pulling the suit in a flare but not complete stalling of the suit?
    \


    Premier DSE  (D 29060)

    Jul 11, 2012, 3:30 PM
    Post #20 of 42 (1519 views)
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    Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/...142480_8320761_n.jpg

    here is a deployment in a wing-open, stalled config. Many times this is referred to as "full flight" because everything is open.


    kallend  (D 23151)

    Jul 11, 2012, 3:40 PM
    Post #21 of 42 (1514 views)
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    Re: [Butters] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    I only wish to clarify what EXACTLY is meant by the questioner.

    So what exactly is full flight?

    Well, that is the point of my observation.

    If I were to be the authority on definitions, it would be wings open, unstalled, unflaired, steady state gliding flight. Rather like we fly in a flock.

    Maybe the OP can tell us what HE understands by the expression.


    mccordia  (D 94775)

    Jul 11, 2012, 3:54 PM
    Post #22 of 42 (1506 views)
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    Re: [kallend] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    Quote:
    Rather like we fly in a flock.

    In quite a few cases thats actually arms swooped back, body arched and legs upTongueWink


    Butters  (C 37840)

    Jul 11, 2012, 7:11 PM
    Post #23 of 42 (1477 views)
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    Re: [5.samadhi] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    thanks for the comments...butters to clarify you are talking about pulling the suit in a flare but not complete stalling of the suit?

    After a flair when the additional horizontal speed has bled off but before stalling.


    Butters  (C 37840)

    Jul 11, 2012, 7:19 PM
    Post #24 of 42 (1473 views)
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    Re: [kallend] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    In reply to:
    So what exactly is full flight?

    Well, that is the point of my observation.

    If I were to be the authority on definitions, it would be wings open, unstalled, unflaired, steady state gliding flight. Rather like we fly in a flock.

    Please do me a favor, if you're going to argue semantics then provide your definition in your response in the future to save time ... I think unstalled and unflaired are objective but wings open is subjective. After all, you could have the wings open and swept back, be arched, etc...

    PS: I consider full flight to be the flight that achieves the best steady state performance for the individual. Yes, this means that my description of pulling in full flight would not actually be in full flight ...


    NoValidTitle  (C 39172)

    Jul 12, 2012, 6:38 AM
    Post #25 of 42 (1394 views)
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    Re: [mccordia] Full Flight Deployment vs collapsing wings [In reply to] Can't Post

    In reply to:
    Quote:
    Rather like we fly in a flock.

    In quite a few cases thats actually arms swooped back, body arched and legs upTongueWink

    Me in white:
    http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/...2335_794695543_n.jpg
    Pirate
    I guess that's what I get for being 115lbs and flocking in an X Laugh

    I don't consider that full flight. Though I use the term "full flight" loosely like some others do.


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