Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Riser covers

 


Sky_doggy  (C 41295)

Jun 29, 2012, 7:24 PM
Post #1 of 20 (1957 views)
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Riser covers Can't Post

Hi,

I have a Jav 4 container and I am flying a Pilot 188 at the moment. The problem I am having is that when I collapse the slider is that the grommets are so big that sometimes it pulls the slider down the risers. Someone told me that I can get riser covers that will stop this happening.

If this is correct could someone tell me where I can purchase them from.

Thanks.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jun 29, 2012, 7:55 PM
Post #2 of 20 (1930 views)
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Re: [Sky_doggy] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you have hard metal links or soft links connecting your lines to the risers? If you have the soft ones talk to any rigger since they might have some s link hats laying around since swoopers don't want the hats on their rigs. If you have the metal links then you can get the silicone covers via most gear stores.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 30, 2012, 11:07 AM
Post #3 of 20 (1824 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Several types of big, bulky, fabric connector link covers will also prevent the slider from descending too far.


5.samadhi

Jun 30, 2012, 3:20 PM
Post #4 of 20 (1771 views)
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Re: [Sky_doggy] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

why don't you want the slider down between the risers? What good does it do above your head?


Sky_doggy  (C 41295)

Jun 30, 2012, 7:22 PM
Post #5 of 20 (1726 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

I have soft links. I'll ask around to see if anyone has some unused covers.

Thanks for the tip


DaVinciflies

Jul 1, 2012, 12:46 AM
Post #6 of 20 (1686 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
why don't you want the slider down between the risers? What good does it do above your head?

The slider does no good at all after opening. By that logic everyone would jump a removable slider.

Maybe this jumper does not want to have the added housekeeping of pulling the slider down and stowing it. There is no reason why the have to.


Sky_doggy  (C 41295)

Jul 1, 2012, 7:54 AM
Post #7 of 20 (1652 views)
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Re: [DaVinciflies] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi all,
This issue I am having is that when I pull on the cords to collapse the slider it pulls it down the riser enough to trap the brakes. I only did this once, it was enough to make sure I was smarter and un- stowed the brakes and do my canopy checks before messing with anything else.

I know that this is thread drift but I am wondering if collapsing the slider offers any drag reduction, unless it is tucked behind your neck. I do know that a round object presented to the relative wind presents a lot of drag compared to a thin section. If you look at the struts or gear leg faring on an airplane you will see that they go to a lot of trouble to present a small cross section to the airflow.


DaVinciflies

Jul 1, 2012, 10:02 AM
Post #8 of 20 (1628 views)
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Re: [Sky_doggy] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I know that this is thread drift but I am wondering if collapsing the slider offers any drag reduction, unless it is tucked behind your neck. I do know that a round object presented to the relative wind presents a lot of drag compared to a thin section. If you look at the struts or gear leg faring on an airplane you will see that they go to a lot of trouble to present a small cross section to the airflow.

A collapsed slider will offer less parasitic drag than a non-collapsed one - even at the top of the risers.

The reason for pulling it down the risers is more to do with allowing the risers to spread apart and let the wing form a more efficient shape, than it is to get the slider out of the airflow - although there might be a small beneficial effect there too.

Given what you have said, I would suggest slider bumpers/hats to prevent interference with the brakes and collapsing the slider if you feel comfortable to do so (remember that you will be doing this shortly after opening when you MUST be scanning for traffic too).

Edited to add: A non-collapsed slider does not present just the thin edge to the relative wind. They flap and move around a lot. That energy you are hearing as sound of the slider flapping is coming from the forward motion of the canopy and could better be used as airspeed than a noise generator!


(This post was edited by DaVinciflies on Jul 1, 2012, 10:05 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 1, 2012, 10:18 AM
Post #9 of 20 (1620 views)
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Re: [Sky_doggy] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I know that this is thread drift but I am wondering if collapsing the slider offers any drag reduction, unless it is tucked behind your neck

Drag reduction is only one part of collapsing a slider, and not the original reason for doing so. When the slider is open, it will flap and create noise, but the real problem is that with every flap the slider grommets are wearing the fingertrap at the bottom of your suspension lines.

This premature wear is the original reaon that collapsible sliders were invented, and the reason you want to collapse your slider even if you jump a bigger/slower canopy.

Follow the adivce given, and get some bumpers. It will keep your slider up, allow you to collapse it with no problem. Don't worry about drag or letting your risers spread out at this point, it's just not worh the extra trouble. When you start to downsize your canopy and are looking to go faster, then you can think about pulling the slider down behind your head and simply remove the bumpers to do so.

There is an exception to the 'don't worry about drag with a big canopy', that being the pilot chute. Do jump a collapsible PC because the drag it produces is directly on the top skin of the canopy and will deform the wing. The action needed to use a collapsible PC is on the ground during the packing, so it doesn't add to your workload under canopy.

Truth be told, the drag from a collpased slider up above the links vs down behind your head is probably similar to wearing a baggy jumpsuit vs a tight fitting one. Anyone who tells you that you 'need' to pull your collapsed slider down had best be jumping only in a skin tight suit, or they're giving up just as much 'performance' as you are by leaving your slider up.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jul 1, 2012, 10:45 AM
Post #10 of 20 (1611 views)
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Re: [Sky_doggy] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi doggy,

Quote:
I'll ask around to see if anyone has some unused covers.

I have four unused PD covers that I do not need. If you want them, send me a PM with your address.

JerryBaumchen


Sky_doggy  (C 41295)

Jul 1, 2012, 4:03 PM
Post #11 of 20 (1585 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave,

Thank you for the background. I hadn't thought about the issue of line wear. It wasn't until I did a Fight-1 canopy flying course that I paid any attention to collapsing the slider. It was somewhat amusing the first time when I pulled it and trapped my brake line, I wont do that again.

I have a background in aviation and the reduction in drag was an assumption by me. As you say, for the speeds I fly a canopy its a pretty small factor.

Thanks again.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 1, 2012, 9:19 PM
Post #12 of 20 (1544 views)
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Re: [Sky_doggy] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quick programming note: 'Riser covers' are the part of your container that cover the risers. Generally, they are the outermost sidewall of the container, and create a trough for your risers to sit in. The upper portion folds over the shoulder portion of the harness. Some rigs will have a secondary flap that runs vertically along the side of the reserve container, and folds into the primary riser cover trough.

What your thread is about are called 'slider bumpers'. For metal links (also called rapide links), bumpers are generally some sort of rubber or silicone tubing that is cut just longer than the link itself. All of the lines are threaded through the tubing, then they are attached to the link, then the tubing is pulled down over the link.

For soft links, the most common type of bumper are the PD 'hats'. They're fabric construction and look like little pilgrim hats. The widest part of the brim is too wide to fit through the slider grommets. The lines and soft links (or Slinks, if made by PD) thread through the hat to hold it in place, and that's that.

Not a big deal, and easy to see how you would call them 'riser covers', because they do end up covering the very top of the riser, but they're called bumpers becasue 'riser cover' was already taken.


5.samadhi

Jul 3, 2012, 3:04 PM
Post #13 of 20 (1428 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

well you can pull your slider down all the way behind your head over the toggles while they are stowed. If you need to change heading while this is happening to avoid a canopy collision then you can use rear risers.

That seems to be the most logical thing to do in my opinion, spreads the risers further apart and frees up a small amount of field of view possibly depending on how the slider is flapping.

Davinci Flies, I think everybody should jump a removeable slider it is much easier and also field of view is better!


in2jumping  (C License)

Jul 3, 2012, 3:16 PM
Post #14 of 20 (1420 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
well you can pull your slider down all the way behind your head over the toggles while they are stowed. If you need to change heading while this is happening to avoid a canopy collision then you can use rear risers.

That seems to be the most logical thing to do in my opinion, spreads the risers further apart and frees up a small amount of field of view possibly depending on how the slider is flapping.

Davinci Flies, I think everybody should jump a removeable slider it is much easier and also field of view is better!

Problems with pulling your slider down.
Can blow up in your face and blind you
Just another timely distraction under canopy
Can slam down and cause a toggle fire on opening
Can interfere with and cause brake/toggle malfunction


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jul 4, 2012, 4:51 AM
Post #15 of 20 (1370 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
well you can pull your slider down all the way behind your head over the toggles while they are stowed

I think everyone knows this. The OP wasn't trying to pull his slider down, he was simply pulling on the drawstrings, and it slid down and dislodged a brake. His temporary solution was to unstow his brakes first. While this won't stop the slider from coming down, and possible pulling on the toggle, it will allow the canopy to return to level flight with no other action than pushing the slider up.

Either way, it's not a 'good' solution, using slider bumpers is the way to go.

Just because you see one thing as being good for you, and your jump, that doesn't mean that others should (or want to) follow your example. For a low time jumper on a larger canopy, it's an added distraction that serves little purpose at this time. One day, the OP will be under canopy, and the idea of pulling the slider down will seem like a good one, and at that time he can lose the bumpers and have at it. Until then, the added risk and responsibility are not for him, and the bumpers are his solution.


DaVinciflies

Jul 4, 2012, 8:27 PM
Post #16 of 20 (1299 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Davinci Flies, I think everybody should jump a removeable slider it is much easier and also field of view is better!

There are problems associated with a removable slider that do not occur with a normal slider, including:

- dropping it when you remove it.
- not putting it back on properly causing a hard opening
- time taken to reattach it
- the fact that most canopies do not come with it as an option so you are essentially a test jumper

This list is not exhaustive, but should indicate that everyone should NOT jump a RS. You need to think a little more (or just know a little more) before throwing out advice for everyone.






mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jul 5, 2012, 11:09 PM
Post #19 of 20 (1145 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think everybody should jump a removeable slider it is much easier and also field of view is better!

Bad idea. That would be like jumping a 120 sq. ft. reserve with 300 jumps.Tongue

Sparky


5.samadhi

Jul 8, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #20 of 20 (1048 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Riser covers [In reply to] Can't Post

ouch that hurts sparky Sly

but to be fair I upsized to a square 135 since starting to fly the Vampire2 Cool



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