Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
After AFF ???

 


BigDreams32  (Student)

Jun 28, 2012, 11:01 PM
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After AFF ??? Can't Post

Hi everybody, me and a couple of friends are doing our AFF in august and we were all curious for a more in detail description on as to what we do after our AFF. we know we gotta work for our A license by doing 25 jumps but how do those jumps actually work? are we going to be able to rent gear right after AFF to complete those jumps? are those 16-17 jumps us just jumping alone and racking up experience or are they coached and if so how many coach jumps are required? -thanks!


overlytall  (A License)

Jun 29, 2012, 2:53 AM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be doing my AFF in late July. From what I know (and it is all theory so please correct me if I am wrong) you will do you consolidation jumps after you have done your AFF, level 1 through to 8. After this stage you are a qualified novice and still a student.

The consolidation jumps are still done under supervision but not freefall instriction as you should be able to jump, fly and land safely. Your supervisor (who is likely your instructor) will debreif you on the ground on what you can do to improve it. You won't be able to jump solo until you pass the AFF and have racked up a minimum of 25 jumps.

As for renting the gear, most DZ's allow you to rent the gear, especially those you are learning with. Check with your DZ or instructor for more detailed information on the rental gear.


Eammon  (A 63980)

Jun 29, 2012, 6:19 AM
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Re: [overlytall] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's close.

You need a minimum of 25 jumps to get your license. That number includes any tandem jumps you may have made, the jumps you make in AFF and any jumps after AFF that you make whether solo or with a coach/instructor (all your jumps to this point had to be with 1 or more instructors, a coach is a lower level certification). After your Cat-E jumps you will be cleared for solo status. At that point you can jump on your own all you want. You still have several levels of instruction (Cat F-H with several different jumps each) in both freefall and canopy control that you need to complete before you can get licensed and jump in groups with people other than coaches or instructors. Make sense?


mrubin  (C License)

Jun 29, 2012, 6:25 AM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

After AFF you'll be given a proficiency card with a number of skills that you need to demonstrate to get your A license. You can find a copy of that card on the USPA website.

Your jumps will be a mix of coach jumps and solos. The number of coach jump depends on how quickly you perform the freefall skills on the proficiency card.

Gear rental should not be a problem. Every dz I've jumped at had rental gear available.

Right now you should be focusing on your AFF. Listen to your instructors and ask questions if you don't understand anything. Have fun and be safe.


overlytall  (A License)

Jun 29, 2012, 7:17 AM
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Re: [Eammon] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
You still have several levels of instruction (Cat F-H with several different jumps each) in both freefall and canopy control that you need to complete before you can get licensed and jump in groups with people other than coaches or instructors. Make sense?

I was under the impression that after you have successfully completed the AFF and have your A licence you can jump without supervision.
I thought you did one jump for each level (1-8 or A-H), providing you prove to your instructor(s) that you can do the maneuvers and checks competently you then just jump to get the number to 25... and then only after that the solo fun (ahem) can begin.


Eammon  (A 63980)

Jun 29, 2012, 7:46 AM
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Re: [overlytall] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

The procedure might be a little different in the UK but here in the US some categories have multiple jumps involved. Typically (assuming no repeats) the first 8 jumps will only get a student through Cat-E and their first solo. Starting at the beginning all jumps are made with instructors only. Cat-A is one jump, Cat-B is one, Cat-C has 2, Cat-D can be done in 1 but most require 2, Cat-E is like D (1 if possible but usually 2). So you see, assuming the student is an average performer, there are your first 8 jumps. At this point the student is cleared for solo status. Jumps from this point on can be made solo, with a coach or with an instructor. Cat-F has 3 jumps including 2 clear and pulls from different altitudes, Cat-G has two different dive flows (docking and docking with fall rate changes) and Cat H could be done in 1 but will likely require 2 jumps (swoop and dock).


dthames  (B 37674)

Jun 29, 2012, 10:30 AM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

MRUBIN commented on getting your AFF out of the way first. Good advice.

The work toward the A license will vary with the type of student. I was told, Don't do a lot of solos, learn bad habits, and have to be broke of those. Also, coached jumps cost more so you don't want to plan them wisely.

This is typical of something I might say to an instructor while planning a solo jump. "I see in Category F I will be tracking. I would like a chance to see what that is like before I try it on a coached jump. Can you tell me the best way I can practice that?" Then listen, learn, go try it, come back, decide when you want to get a coached jump on Category F.

One thing I did was to work on the canopy requirements on almost every jump, even just a solo fun jump. You are expected to jump with some instructor involvement/planning during this phase. So asking for some direction and help is expected. Be polite and pick a time to ask when they are not tied up with a student jump.

Practice that canopy work!


(This post was edited by dthames on Jun 29, 2012, 10:37 AM)


BigDreams32  (Student)

Jun 29, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: [overlytall] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

what i was wondering, the jumps after AFF..all those jumps leading up to A license, am i or do i have to be supervised? and are the jumps usually cheaper? as in i only have to pay for gear rental and jump tickets? or does every jump need an instructor/supervisor with me?


BigDreams32  (Student)

Jun 29, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Re: [dthames] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah that seams like a really smart way of doing it, i'm sure a lot of my questions will be answered when i do my AFF..thanks eveybody!!
so as far as coached jumps, does it vary from DZ to DZ or is it a set amount that i need to do? and leaving them for last sounds efficient also


Premier NWFlyer  (D License)

Jun 29, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

My advice is to call up (or better yet, visit) the DZ (or DZs) that you are considering going to and asking them these very questions. I'm guessing some of your questions may be motivated by wanting to have an idea of how much this whole "getting an A license" exercise is likely to cost. That's a valid question and a DZ should be up front with you about the typical costs to get a license, including AFF jumps, post-AFF student jumps, gear rental, packing class costs (if any), cost of re-jumps, etc. Of course, it varies based on how many and what types of jumps you may (or may not) need to repeat, but you should be able to get a rough idea before you get started and get all your questions answered. If a DZ isn't willing to sit down and answer these questions, you may want to reconsider whether it's the right place for you (with a caveat - if you show up right in the middle of a busy weekend day, it may be more difficult to get time with an instructor or DZ representative, at least until the jumping day is over, but you should be able to set up a time to talk with someone).


hub1100  (C 41319)

Jun 30, 2012, 9:08 PM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Students need to understand the purpose of the SIM, which is online, an app and a softcover book.

The SIM, Section 3-1E is what you are looking for:

E. License privileges and requirements

A License

1. Persons holding a USPA A license may jump without supervision, pack their own main parachute, engage in basic group jumps, perform water jumps, and must have-

a. completed 25 jumps

b. completed all requirements listed on the USPA A License Proficiency Card

c. completed five group freefall skydives involving at least two participants

d. received the signature and official stamp on the USPA A License Proficiency Card or USPA A License Progression Card (ISP)

Note: For USPA A-license registration purposes only, USPA Headquarters will accept either completed card signed by a USPA Instructor without the official stamp. The registration fee must be included.

The next question should be: What is the 'USPA A License Proficiency Card or USPA A License Progression Card'.
Answer, again; SIM.


COA  (A 110161)

Jul 1, 2012, 5:39 AM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess there's slightly different rules and expectations dependant on where you do your course.

Jumping in the UK, you obtain your A licence when you complete your AFF course which is a minimum of 18 jumps - Levels 1-8 including 10 consolidation jumps providing you don't foul up and have to repeat a jump - and also have completed your canopy handling 1 (CH1). After those eighteen jumps you're given your A licence and official membership from the BPA and are then a solo/fun jumper.

During your AFF, kit hire including packing should already be incorporated in with the price of the course. Full membership to the BPA is a seperate cost though.


COA  (A 110161)

Jul 1, 2012, 5:43 AM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
what i was wondering, the jumps after AFF..all those jumps leading up to A license, am i or do i have to be supervised? and are the jumps usually cheaper? as in i only have to pay for gear rental and jump tickets? or does every jump need an instructor/supervisor with me?

You're typically supervised with at least one instructor in free fall on your levels 1-7.

When I did my level 8 I was simply watched from the plane (as we were only 5000ft up in the air) and didn't have anyone beside me. I think that might be typical of everyone else as well. All your consolidation jumps, including canopy handling/landing, are done on your own without the aid of an instructor.


BigDreams32  (Student)

Jul 1, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Re: [COA] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

ahh that clears up a lot of confusion and wondering! thanks you! Cool


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Jul 1, 2012, 11:01 AM
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Re: [COA] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
your consolidation jumps, including canopy handling/landing, are done on your own without the aid of an instructor.

This is true, but you still need one on the plane to dispatch you. This explains why consolidation jumps can cost a little more.


Divalent  (C 40494)

Jul 1, 2012, 7:22 PM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

You need to explicitly state what country you are in. (Your profile doesn't say, but from your description of what you think you need to do it would appear to be the USA.) The USPA A license is different from the UK version (different requirements, and they are not equivalent in what you can do with it once you earn it).

If you are in the USA and plan to train here, then what those helpful guys from the UK are saying does not apply to you. And if you are from Russia, almost everything people have told you doesn't apply to you. (this is an international forum, so ya gotta be clear, and that's one reason it is a profile item)


BigDreams32  (Student)

Jul 2, 2012, 10:31 AM
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Re: [Divalent] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sorry for the confusion, I do live in the USA miami fl.


Trafficdiver  (D License)

Jul 2, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
what i was wondering, the jumps after AFF..all those jumps leading up to A license, am i or do i have to be supervised?

They are always on the plane to check your gear and go over the dive plan. Sometimes you jump by yourself, sometimes with coaches. You cannot jump with other licensed jumpers if they are not coaches.

Your Hop N' Pop at 5500' is a solo too.


In reply to:
and are the jumps usually cheaper? as in i only have to pay for gear rental and jump tickets? or does every jump need an instructor/supervisor with me?

They got moderately cheaper at my place. It goes down until you get you're license. Most places want you to rent your gear there til you get your A. Many would suggest longer.


(This post was edited by Trafficdiver on Jul 2, 2012, 10:13 PM)


scottd818  (C 41314)

Jul 3, 2012, 7:06 AM
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Re: [Trafficdiver] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Your Hop N' Pop at 5500' is a solo too.
In reply to:

5500'!!?? They made me go from 3500'!! Lucky! hahaWink


neflier  (C License)

Jul 3, 2012, 1:54 PM
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Re: [scottd818] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Your Hop N' Pop at 5500' is a solo too.
In reply to:

5500'!!?? They made me go from 3500'!! Lucky! hahaWink

I'm finishing my A and did both a 5,500' and 3,500'.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 4, 2012, 5:43 PM
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Re: [BigDreams32] After AFF ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm sorry for the confusion, I do live in the USA miami fl.

Part of the problem with the forums is that it is international, and people are really keen to help. But their advice is given through the prism of their local regulations. It's worth bearing that in mind, along with the fact that all to often people giving advice make mistakes so always take it with a pinch of salt.

In the US the USPA sets the training program that most (but not all) dropzones follow. The USPA makes the sim available free of charge. Read the sections on Basic safety requirements and also the license privileges and requirements. Unless you are certain that the local dz follows the Integrated Student Program I wouldn't read that part. Purely as you may then get confused when they get you to do things differently.

I would avoid reading sections 5 onwards until you have completed AFF - some specific areas of advice are different for students and again you don't want to get confused. The hardcopy of the sim has extracts from FAA regulations that are worth knowing at any time.



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