Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
cypres 2 or vigil 2

 


dreamtoy  (B 37208)

Jun 27, 2012, 2:38 PM
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cypres 2 or vigil 2 Can't Post

i am getting my first rig and wanted too hear others opinions on which AAD to get? i'm sure similar post have been created but i'm looking for current input; user experience will also help with my decision?


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Jun 27, 2012, 2:48 PM
Post #2 of 25 (2261 views)
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Re: [dreamtoy] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

jump both, hope to never use either. My next rig (hopefully in a few weeks, first brand spanking new custom one) will get a cypres, only because some countries don't allow vigils and I want to jump in those countries. Otherwise which ever makes you happy, marketing aside I don't know that there is that much of a difference...


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Jun 27, 2012, 3:12 PM
Post #3 of 25 (2250 views)
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Re: [dirtbox] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
some countries don't allow vigils

I didn't know that.

Which countries?


virgin-burner

Jun 27, 2012, 3:27 PM
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Re: [Joellercoaster] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
some countries don't allow vigils

I didn't know that.

Which countries?

the ones with a sensible skydiving-org!?

Tongue


dreamtoy  (B 37208)

Jun 27, 2012, 4:25 PM
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Re: [dirtbox] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

agreed, its like an airbag; you dont want to use it but its nice knowing its there! now i plan on traveling and jumping every place i visit, including other countries so that is a big deal to me :/

what countries that you know of because this could be a big deciding factor!


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Jun 27, 2012, 5:35 PM
Post #6 of 25 (2190 views)
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Re: [dirtbox] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
only because some countries don't allow vigils and I want to jump in those countries.

Please list the countries that don't allow Vigils as an AAD. I didn't know there were any.


alec86  (B 109831)

Jun 28, 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #7 of 25 (2070 views)
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Re: [Skydivesg] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

when I come to buying a new aad at the end of the year i'll will be going for a vigil 2, why because there cheaper and they last a lot longer 20 years to cypres 12. plus you don't have to send them back every 4 years,


Abedy

Jun 28, 2012, 10:43 AM
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Re: [alec86] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...they last a lot longer 20 years ...

Whatever you chose, it's your decision, this is a free country Smile

BUT: Just as a hint - The company states it lasts up to 20 years. They also did this for the first version. I wonder how many of the VIGIL1 are still around...

Airtec grants warranty for their CYPRES throughout the scheduled service time = 12,5 years. That's pretty good, eh?

OTOH - at least in Germany - I learned from a forum here - Vigils only come with a 1-year warranty.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 28, 2012, 10:43 AM
Post #9 of 25 (2058 views)
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Re: [dreamtoy] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Cypres 2 if you can afford it. Vigil is not _quite_ as reliable but it's close. Both are definitely better than nothing - provided you don't rely on them.


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Jun 28, 2012, 10:45 AM
Post #10 of 25 (2056 views)
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Re: [dirtbox] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Since the poster has not responded to our request for his list of countries I decided to check it out myself.

I just got off the phone with Vigil USA.

The only country that has not approved the Vigil for use is Norway.

AAD which makes the Vigil has been working with the federation that controls skydiving in that country to get the Vigil approved but the process is quite long and arduous.

The only people who can not use the Vigil are residents of Norway. Visiting jumpers are allowed to use the Vigil.

So if you live somewhere other than Norway you can jump and travel with your Vigil world wide.

So there you have it; another mis-statement clearified.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 28, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #11 of 25 (1961 views)
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Re: [Skydivesg] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Since the poster has not responded to our request for his list of countries I decided to check it out myself.

I just got off the phone with Vigil USA.

The only country that has not approved the Vigil for use is Norway.

AAD which makes the Vigil has been working with the federation that controls skydiving in that country to get the Vigil approved but the process is quite long and arduous.

The only people who can not use the Vigil are residents of Norway. Visiting jumpers are allowed to use the Vigil.

So if you live somewhere other than Norway you can jump and travel with your Vigil world wide.

So there you have it; another mis-statement clearified.

Thanks.

As to the original question, cypres is the market leader so if you want to go for the most accepted product that is what to choose.. however I jump a vigil and am happy with it. Just remember most aad 'failures', are the owner simply not reading the manual.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jun 28, 2012, 4:50 PM
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Re: [dreamtoy] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Here's my take:
If I were buying my first AAD, for my main rig, as a really active skydiver -- I'd go for the best, a Cypres (even if I grumbled a little about the life cycle costs). If I were getting a second AAD, trying to keep costs down, I'd then buy a Vigil (even if I grumbled a little about their not quite as reliable algorithms).


dreamtoy  (B 37208)

Jun 28, 2012, 6:29 PM
Post #13 of 25 (1903 views)
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Re: [pchapman] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks for everyones input, the decision is still tuff but im leaning towards cypress.


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Jun 28, 2012, 6:35 PM
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Re: [Skydivesg] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Gday, sorry have been skydiving.. u know that thing you do when not on a forum (ok a night job and a night on the piss may also have been in there as well Wink ) but yes Norway was the country I was aware of (they also banned triathlons) which is a country I plan on jumping making cypres the only option. Crazy

I do apologize for the late reply, what I said was however correct and you found the answer without me guiding you to it, bravo young chap...

edit to add: I didn't realise this rule only applied to Norwegian nationals, thanks for the info :)


(This post was edited by dirtbox on Jun 28, 2012, 6:37 PM)


Skydivesg  (D 10938)

Jun 28, 2012, 6:40 PM
Post #15 of 25 (1894 views)
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Re: [dirtbox] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
which is a country I plan on jumping making cypres the only option. Crazy


edit to add: I didn't realise this rule only applied to Norwegian nationals, thanks for the info :)

Which means Cypres is not the only option.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jul 2, 2012, 2:30 AM
Post #16 of 25 (1729 views)
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Re: [dreamtoy] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Came across a new one this weekend. First of all found a jumper with more than 400 jumps, who didn't even consider the fact that we were flying from a different location (1000ft difference in elevation, rendering the aad useless, in default mode).

But they had a Cypress and I tried to help them restart it. Try as we might it took forever as it simply didn't respond to button presses. Apparently it has been getting progressively worse when turning it on (they didn't know how to turn it off). I would certainly classify it as faulty, so my first broken Cypres that I have come across. If I was the owner I would be sending it in under warranty.


tbrown  (D 6533)

Jul 3, 2012, 12:14 PM
Post #17 of 25 (1604 views)
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Re: [dreamtoy] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Bought an all new rig last year and had the choice to buy either AAD I wanted. I chose to go with a Cypres 2. I'd been very happy with the original Cypres on my old rig - which even fired once for the original owner, when he messed up and took it a bit low - so I knew it really would work !

The Cypres is more expensive, has a shorter lifespan with mandatory retirement, and two mandatory services. I'd just as soon have my AAD gone over thoroughly every four years anyway. Hope I never need it - but to me, my wife, and kids, my life is worth it.


davevans  (C 36210)

Jul 3, 2012, 7:14 PM
Post #18 of 25 (1555 views)
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Re: [tbrown] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I currently have a cypress 1 and will be replacing with a 2 shortly. I really considered the vigil due to potential longer life and not having to send back for a 4 year check up, but after a lot of thought I'm back to the cypress 2 because I just feel more comfortable with it. Also, I really don't mind the 4 year check and I don't know if its just me but I don't believe the self diagnosis within the vigil could be nearly as complete as the extensive testing done by cypres when you send it back. Additionally, if there is something wrong with the unity what's to say that it could actually correctly report a problem. But that is just my own beliefs and I could be totally off but at the end of the day its my last line of defense so I just want to make sure I have what I feel the most comfortable jumping with.


degeneration  (C 106811)

Jul 4, 2012, 3:32 AM
Post #19 of 25 (1491 views)
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Re: [davevans] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

I got a Cypres 2 in one rig and a Vigil 1 in the other. Happy with both, would happily continue to jump both. I'm more happy with the Vigil cause I haven't had down time with it yet. The Cypres 2 is off for its 8 year just now... and has been off for its 8 year for at least the last 6 or so weeks. That, I am not happy about at all.

I'm lucky that I got 2 rigs, so can still jump when and if I want to. Not everyone has that, and with the current service time for a Cypres in Europe, it has so far covered a notable part of the "summer" season.

That is why if I were to buy a new AAD now, it would be a Vigil 2.


hackish  (No License)

Jul 5, 2012, 8:00 PM
Post #20 of 25 (1383 views)
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Re: cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately many skydivers are emotional thinkers who make emotional decisions not necessarily backed by science or true facts. Stories get told, mis-quoted and around they go eventually told as fact.

I would suggest that you contact the manufacturer of each product and pose your questions to them. The manufacturer and dealer will be the best educated to help you make your decision.

Every AAD out there has had some sort of failure. At the end of the day all the approved AADs are quality products with dedicated teams of individuals working very hard to ensure they are as safe as they can build them.

Different AADs have different features and different firing criteria. Some require you to take your rig offline for maintenance, some do not. If you bail at 1300' some AADs will not have armed and will do nothing, others arm at 150' and could provide protection.

At the end of the day an AAD is about your life. That unlikely event where you need it. Ask the questions and decide for yourself which product is more appropriate to make you feel comfortable.

-Michael


Chrisky

Jul 11, 2012, 9:35 AM
Post #21 of 25 (1195 views)
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Re: [degeneration] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

The Cypres 2 gives you a 6 months before or after window for the maintenance date. If you send it off in the middle of the season, blame your own planning... Wink
I've had a Cypres2 for 8 years now. Will buy another one when I need it. If the window pops open and a cheapo AAD fires, the load is on you and the price difference equaled.

That is, if your reserve pc stats inside the aircraft, hopefully.

Just talked to a guy familiar with the matter the other day; in Norway they don't believe that an electronic device can have a 20 year life span without maintenance. I second that belief. So basically AAD needs to wait 20 years and then show a Vigil that is still working (without maintenance), then it will also be cleared for Norwegians.


Ron

Jul 11, 2012, 10:00 AM
Post #22 of 25 (1178 views)
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Re: [dreamtoy] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

CYPRES2.

I had a C1 till it timed out. I thought long and hard about which one I would buy and I decided the C2 was better simply because the Vigil has too many accidental fires for my taste.

Actually, I was offered a great deal on the Argus... Glad I skipped that one as well.


Abedy

Jul 11, 2012, 10:36 AM
Post #23 of 25 (1161 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just talked to a guy familiar with the matter the other day; in Norway they don't believe that an electronic device can have a 20 year life span without maintenance. I second that belief.

So do German authorities, thus making checks of electronic devices in automobiles mandatory. The results of TV electronics checks prove that electronic devices need maintenance. German link Just one pick: Electronics check-ups revealed that 161 in 145,000 tested airbags of cars up to 5 years of age were faulty.
Well, it's a bit comparing apples with pears as airbags etc also have a considerable amount of mechanical parts but it gives - at least in my eyes - a little more than a glimpse of how tough a job it should be to produce electronic devices used/stored at -30C (at 4000m in winter) to +60C (in car, in summer), in very humid and very dry conditions, being shocked, pushed, accelerated/decelerated etc pp for 20 years...


degeneration  (C 106811)

Jul 11, 2012, 11:55 PM
Post #24 of 25 (1094 views)
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Re: [Chrisky] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The Cypres 2 gives you a 6 months before or after window for the maintenance date. If you send it off in the middle of the season, blame your own planning...

Bought it for a 2nd rig earlier this year, sent it off as soon as it arrived, so had no choice over the send off date.

Do Cypres end up with a 2+ month service time in Europe every season?

My view of this is, if they know they are going to be busy - get more staff in to cope. Bad planning on their part.


LloydDobbler  (D 30655)

Jul 14, 2012, 6:22 PM
Post #25 of 25 (999 views)
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Re: [dreamtoy] cypres 2 or vigil 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i am getting my first rig and wanted too hear others opinions on which AAD to get? i'm sure similar post have been created but i'm looking for current input; user experience will also help with my decision?

Were it me, I'd go for a CYPRES 2. If you haven't seen the many threads on accidental Vigil misfires, do a search of the site. Many are operator error...many are things as simple as the pilot's window in the plane opening. Here's the latest one.

I've been on the fence about it for the past few years - I'm not one who likes witchhunts. But as I've seen more and more near-incidents - and watched the Vigil manufacturers do nothing - I'm now beginning to think that it's only a matter of time before we see someone pulled out the door when their Vigil fires...possibly taking a chunk of the side of the plane with them. UnsurePirate



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