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Double Fatality-Tandem - Skydive the Ranch

 

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DFWAJG

Jun 16, 2012, 9:37 AM
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Double Fatality-Tandem - Skydive the Ranch Can't Post

http://hudsonvalley.ynn.com/...after-jump-accident/


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on Jul 14, 2012, 7:30 PM)


skychick519  (D 25333)

Jun 17, 2012, 5:18 AM
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Re: [DFWAJG] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Does anyone know what really happened?


norway  (D 15506)

Jun 17, 2012, 7:51 AM
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Re: [skychick519] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan_real_estate_exec_klyn_NAQUouruQ4RxSfGBeu8XUN

Today's NY Post.


Chris3D

Jun 17, 2012, 8:40 AM
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Re: [DFWAJG] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

As this just happened 2 days ago, it's too early to tell what may have happened, all the news sources I've read give no specific information other mentioning an apparent parachute malfunction. Hopefully someone with first hand knowledge can offer some insights as to what may have gone wrong.

This really hits close to home for me, because I did a tandem with Alex last Sunday. My wife and I went to the Ranch and both jumped as combined birthday presents for each other. It was her first jump, I had jumped previously.

I can say that Alex was incredibly thorough throughout the entire jump. On the ground, he went over everything we'd be doing, I had asked him if we could practice turning in free fall and he demonstrated how. On the ride to altitude, he methodically checked all the equipment over and over and made sure the harness was exceedingly tight. I had complete confidence in his abilities, and we had a great jump.

This is incredibly sad and I just hope an explanation can be found so something may be learned from it.


(This post was edited by Chris3D on Jun 17, 2012, 10:36 AM)


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Jun 17, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Re: [norway] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post







Premier NWFlyer  (D 29960)

Jun 17, 2012, 2:10 PM
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Re: [DFWAJG] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

http://lewisboro.dailyvoice.com/...s-skydiving-accident

Little more info in this article. (I don't know anything other than what I found in a google news search).


Melissa126  (D 33235)

Jun 17, 2012, 3:04 PM
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Re: [DFWAJG] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Second hand info I heard: "Instant opening" canopy which blacked both of them out, followed by a toggle fire until impact. Again, just second hand info.


stratostar  (Student)

Jun 17, 2012, 6:21 PM
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Re: [DFWAJG] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

News is reporting the TI had a known medical condition that could account for his lack of action had this been a factor.

http://www.recordonline.com/...20617/NEWS/120619823


DougH  (D License)

Jun 17, 2012, 6:55 PM
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Re: [stratostar] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

A current FAA medical would seem to dispute that conclusion. A slammer opening can incapacitate the healthiest of individuals.


This was on my mind all weekend while tossing drogue's BSBD. Unsure


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 17, 2012, 7:06 PM
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Re: [Melissa126] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Second hand info I heard: "Instant opening" canopy which blacked both of them out, followed by a toggle fire until impact. Again, just second hand info

Any idea what the info was based on? Was there video on the jump to confirm the hard opening? Broken lines or other rig/harness damage? The brake fire could be determined after the fact just by seeing the position of the brakes after-the-fact, but without other evidence to back it up, a hard opening would just be a guess.


stratostar  (Student)

Jun 17, 2012, 7:32 PM
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Re: [DougH] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I guess it would depend on what condition he may have had. But yea, you would think a class 3 would not be issued, however, tell the truth on your medical app or not admit to a condition and get one... it's not like they run any test on you to find out if your not being truthful.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 17, 2012, 11:52 PM
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Re: [stratostar] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well I guess it would depend on what condition he may have had. But yea, you would think a class 3 would not be issued, however, tell the truth on your medical app or not admit to a condition and get one... it's not like they run any test on you to find out if your not being truthful.

A tree stump could pass a Class III medical.

Sparky


skydiverek  (C 952)

Jun 18, 2012, 1:43 AM
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Re: [mjosparky] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Do we know the type of lines and the type of rubber bands?


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jun 18, 2012, 2:18 AM
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Re: [skydiverek] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

 I still think a Tandem fatality a few years ago was caused by a slammer....Tandem terminal combined with a ZP canopy which suffered no damage at all. The pair were unconcious under canopy. The pair took the full opening shock, which I still think killed them both.

I think that both of them had broken necks, but unfortunately, at the time, no autopsy was done on either person. The verdict was that they died on impact, but the lack of apparent lower limb injuriesmade me think they didn't hit the ground that hard.,

If an autopsy has not been done on this pair, maybe it should be....a common to both neck/spinal injury may indicate the opening shock did the damage.

I was never keen on ZP tandem canopies after that, because I thought that they were a ticking time bomb when mixedwith a Tandem terminal opening....

It could be worth discussing......


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 18, 2012, 2:44 AM
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Re: [obelixtim] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I still think a Tandem fatality a few years ago was caused by a slammer....Tandem terminal combined with a ZP canopy which suffered no damage at all. The pair were unconcious under canopy. The pair took the full opening shock, which I still think killed them both.

I think that both of them had broken necks, but unfortunately, at the time, no autopsy was done on either person. The verdict was that they died on impact, but the lack of apparent lower limb injuriesmade me think they didn't hit the ground that hard.,

If an autopsy has not been done on this pair, maybe it should be....a common to both neck/spinal injury may indicate the opening shock did the damage.

I was never keen on ZP tandem canopies after that, because I thought that they were a ticking time bomb when mixedwith a Tandem terminal opening....

It could be worth discussing......

A couple of questions. Do tandems have collapsible sliders? Second question, can a passenger normally reach the toggles and are they typically shown how to use them prior to boarding?

I've been on the ground when a sport canopy opened instantly years ago. It sounded like a gunshot, broke a bunch of lines and ripped at least 1 cell. Back in the day we opened at 2k or so, tandems are typically double that - would you still hear a very hard opening?


feuergnom  (D License)

Jun 18, 2012, 2:58 AM
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Re: [nigel99] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

as to your questions:

tandem mains do have collapsible sliders - but I was never able to reach them once under canopy (short arms). I don't quite get why you are asking

can a pax reach the toggles? you'd have to have looooong arms to do so.
I know many TI's do not like the idea of a pax steering the canopy, so think about the next sentence your own way: usually I told the pax that they could steer with my guidance and help once we were open and fully functional - so that means I (the TI) has to had the toggles to the pax. hope that answers some of your questions


mixedup  (D License)

Jun 18, 2012, 3:22 AM
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Re: [obelixtim] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
when mixedwith a Tandem terminal opening....
isn't the idea that the drogue slows them down to normal freefall speed? (I'd just assumed this as you see the camera guys flying around them)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jun 18, 2012, 5:09 AM
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Re: [mixedup] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

 If you are at Tandem terminal you most likely have a problem with the drogue, or no drogue at all. Its not somewhere you really want to be. further complications most likely come with Tandem terminal.

As to blowing lines and the canopy, that is OK, because that transfers some of the shock to the canopy. Where the canopy suffers no damage at all, the TM and rider cop it all....

If the opening shock incapacitates the TM, and you have other problems as well, it is trouble...


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Jun 18, 2012, 5:10 AM
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Re: [davelepka] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

I am involved in this investigation. I will put out all the info as soon as it is proper. Please bear with us. I watched the last minute of the jump from the air. I was first on the scene and got a good look at the gear, along with another very experienced instructor (and my examiner).

I will not comment further until all parties are done with their investigations. Please understand and be respectful and avoid speculation.


masterrigger1  (D 14167)

Jun 18, 2012, 5:29 AM
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Re: [mjosparky] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
A tree stump could pass a Class III medical.

Sparky,
I know some fellow pilots that must be worse off than a tree stump.
The reason being is they could not pass their class III medical!

I guess it depends on the actual Examiner as to how well he/she compiles with the Medical Standard.


MEL


Ron

Jun 18, 2012, 6:12 AM
Post #23 of 302 (9094 views)
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Re: [DougH] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
A current FAA medical would seem to dispute that conclusion

Not really. He could have lied about the condition, the condition could have happened after he got his last medical and he didn't self ground..... Basically, there are plenty of reasons why the FAA medical is a joke.


adamT  (D 26819)

Jun 18, 2012, 6:37 AM
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Re: [Ron] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

Preexisting medical conditions aren't always known. Something as simple as the class III exam won't necessarily find a unknown condition. I lost a friend when he was 30. He had weak point in his heart for his whole life that no one knew about until it let go as he was walking through his house one evening.

This doesn't provide any info, I just wanted to remind people that a pre existing condition could be unknown to all parties.

Bsbd Alex, I'm missing you terribly.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Jun 18, 2012, 7:09 AM
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Re: [adamT] Double Fatality-Tandem [In reply to] Can't Post

So true Adam. I really hate this thread. To much speculation and no facts. The medical report will tell us more when it is released. I know this thread is used to learn. Speculating on events does not help us learn. I see it over and over in here. Does nothing to help and gives false info to people that don't know any better.

Rest in peace alex. I will miss that stupid smile of your!


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