Forums: Skydiving: Incidents:
Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec

 

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mircan  (D 32291)

Jun 10, 2012, 1:44 PM
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Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec Can't Post

A jumper died after wingsuit jump in Croatia.
I found about it from the Facebook groups.
Lady jumper J,S. 36 jears, about 700 jumps.
According to the news/witnesses it was low pull or canopy malfunction...
Link 1
Link 2


5.samadhi

Jun 10, 2012, 8:15 PM
Post #2 of 26 (3814 views)
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Re: [mircan] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

do you know what type of canopy (main and reserve) and loading it was?


mircan  (D 32291)

Jun 10, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Re: [5.samadhi] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

No. All the info above, I found it in the news.


castle_bravo  (C License)

Jun 11, 2012, 12:06 AM
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Re: [mircan] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if she had an AAD (and if it was turned on).


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Jun 11, 2012, 12:57 AM
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Re: [castle_bravo] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I wonder if she had an AAD (and if it was turned on).

Cypres and Vigil both activate when your fallrate is above 35 m/s. It is easy to fly a wingsuit in such way that your fallrate is below that. Although you'd have to be super distracted to fly a wingsuit into the ground and not get woken up by the ground rush but an AAD isn't guaranteed to save your ass when you're flying a wingsuit.


jerry81

Jun 11, 2012, 1:19 AM
Post #6 of 26 (3561 views)
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Re: [Arvoitus] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

This was probably a plane jump with a wingsuit and BASE gear at an event, judging from 2nd and 3rd hand reports...


(This post was edited by jerry81 on Jun 11, 2012, 1:20 AM)


Skyper

Jun 11, 2012, 2:01 AM
Post #7 of 26 (3513 views)
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Re: [jerry81] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

from the news above:

- it was a demo jump.
- her jump was not planned at all.
- she just show up that morning and said "I can make an extraoridnaryjump for the public".
- she had 700 jumps and 500 base jumps.
- organizers allowed her to jump based on ad hoc desision.
- she got new wingsuit recently


jerolim  (F License)

Jun 11, 2012, 2:01 AM
Post #8 of 26 (3511 views)
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Re: [jerry81] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

Confirmed, it was jump with base rig, Vampire V4. I've heared that she decided to deploy low. She had a problem finding pilot chute in unfamiliar suit (it was in leg pouch). She deployed to low. Unsure
This is what I have heared,..


(This post was edited by jerolim on Jun 11, 2012, 5:39 AM)


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Jun 11, 2012, 4:50 AM
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Re: [Skyper] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

Demo jumps seem to be over-represented in fatalities over the years.

I'm assuming that jumpers get distracted with all the other stuff going on at a demo, and lose track of how long they're focusing on other things. Saving your own life is always the primary responsibility -- you mess up the demo far more by dying than you do by landing out, pulling too high for them to see, or not having smoke.

Wendy P.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 11, 2012, 8:49 AM
Post #10 of 26 (2973 views)
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Re: [wmw999] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

>I'm assuming that jumpers get distracted with all the other stuff going on at a demo,
>and lose track of how long they're focusing on other things.

I think that's a big part of it. Other issues include:

"Demo fever." The jumper will not decline to jump even if conditions are terrible because "all those people are counting on him."

Unfamiliarity with the DZ. New DZ's always pose more risks - different winds, different visual cues for altitude, different outs and hazards etc.

Peer pressure. There is far more peer pressure on a demo jump than on a regular jump.

Logistics. In some cases the jumper _cannot_ land with the airplane because it is returning to its home base, so he must jump even if conditions are bad.

Crowds. Often crowd control at demos is suboptimal and people present a hazard.

Overall demos are one of the most dangerous jumps you can do; requiring a PRO rating (or other equivalent experience/training) is a very good idea.


FB1609  (C 1409)

Jun 11, 2012, 9:02 AM
Post #11 of 26 (2939 views)
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Re: [Skyper] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

Well certainly was extraordinary. So wearing a BASE rig allows someone to dump as low as they want on a demo, yeah that is really cool.


skygranny

Jun 11, 2012, 9:47 AM
Post #12 of 26 (2863 views)
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Re: [mircan] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Lady jumper J,S. 36 jears

26 years old, 10 years in sport. Frown

According to info from a local jumper, it was a wingsuit demo jump from trike (motorised hang glider), not airplane, with a BASE rig.


feuergnom  (D License)

Jun 11, 2012, 1:10 PM
Post #13 of 26 (2561 views)
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Re: [jerolim] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
a problem finding pilot chute in unfamiliar suit


if that is correct, it's similar to the fatality in hungary a month ago - big suit and problems finding the hackey resulting in disaster Unimpressed


5.samadhi

Jun 11, 2012, 3:10 PM
Post #14 of 26 (2449 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

is it possible for fabric to obscure handle when using leg pouch? I can see how fabric can get in way with BOC but is this possible with leg pouch on V4?

Did any eyewitness see her attempting deployment and missing/grabbing fabric???

fuck its a nightmare scenario BSBD Unsure




jerolim  (F License)

Jun 12, 2012, 1:38 AM
Post #16 of 26 (2176 views)
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Re: [5.samadhi] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

there is nothing wrong with the suit, only you should pull higher if you don't have many jumps on it. It is same thing as with any new canopy, you should pull higher until you have some expirience,...


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
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Jun 12, 2012, 6:04 AM
Post #17 of 26 (2056 views)
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Re: [jerolim] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
there is nothing wrong with the suit, only you should pull higher if you don't have many jumps on it. It is same thing as with any new canopy, you should pull higher until you have some expirience,...

One could just as easily say "There is nothing wrong with putting a 200 lb, 100 jump student on a Velo 103; he just needs to land it straight in until he has some experience."

The suit is a V4. It's on the high end of performance suits. I don't know firsthand the deceased's experience with the suit, but I'm told there was "very little wingsuiting experience."

Everyone is always in a rush to upsize in wingsuits, no different than downsizing in canopies.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jun 12, 2012, 6:26 AM
Post #18 of 26 (2027 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

This is the 3rd or 4th such incident in the last few years. One occurred a few years ago in the states with a fairly new wingsuit pilot out of a helicopter into a backyard demo. Demos, Wingsuits and BASE gear pushes people into situations that they might not have prepared for and there is no room for error with a low deployment.




fcajump  (D 15598)

Jun 12, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Re: [billvon] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

Demos are both "not just another skydive" and enticing for doing dumb things.

While I'm not experienced in stadiums, I've got a couple hundred demos under my belt and I know its easy to want to impress and hard to say "No" when things are not 100%.

I have learned to increase the margin by 25%, decrease my tollerence for winds/clouds and changes, because the nature of them will introduce things you weren't expecting.

I've never seen an audience diappointed because it went safe or because the jumper stood up, or because he didn't swoop.

On the other hand, I've read the accounts from the audience when they witnessed a death.

My condolances to the family, friends and witnesses.

JW


JohnRich  (D License)

Jun 12, 2012, 10:11 AM
Post #21 of 26 (1871 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Demos, Wingsuits and BASE gear pushes people into situations that they might not have prepared for and there is no room for error with a low deployment.

Ding ding ding! That's the way I see this incident. It was the combinatin of the new wingsuit, the decision to pull low, and the BASE rig which gave no reserve option. Change any one of those things, and it probably wouldn't have happened. If she had pulled higher, there would have been time to feel around and find the handle. If she had worn a skydiving rig, she could have gone to her reserve parachute instead of fumbling for the hackey handle. But combine all three of those things together, and there's neither the time nor the alternatives to save yourself when something goes wrong.


skygranny

Jun 12, 2012, 10:55 AM
Post #22 of 26 (1824 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

Some more info published in this article (in Croatian):

http://www.vecernji.hr/...sretna-clanak-418689

According to the article, it was a jump from a trike, exit altitude was 1200 m/approx. 4000 ft. She planned to open at 500m (1640 ft), but couldn't find handle, and her body position turned into a steep dive. When she finally pulled, it was too low, no time to inflate a canopy.

Article also says it was her 555th jump, and (I guess) the first one with her new WS (translation would be "she went to Vrbovec to try her new WS").

Sad indeed, and seems so avoidable.


Waldschrat

Jun 12, 2012, 12:15 PM
Post #23 of 26 (1744 views)
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Re: [skygranny] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

And i think also the 1. with "Leg Pilot Chute Pouch" on the V4?

I didn't understand her decision. If you want to pull at 500m you can also pull at 700m with a skydiving rig.

But Blue sky forever!


ixlr82  (C 33491)

Jun 12, 2012, 9:22 PM
Post #24 of 26 (1516 views)
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Re: [Waldschrat] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

Question then for base jumping wingsuiters. Do you jump a new wingsuit with a skydiving rig first until you are comfortable with the deployments?


Mikki_ZH  (Student)

Jun 13, 2012, 4:03 AM
Post #25 of 26 (1383 views)
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Re: [ixlr82] Wingsuit fatality Croatia, Vrbovec [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Question then for base jumping wingsuiters. Do you jump a new wingsuit with a skydiving rig first until you are comfortable with the deployments?

yes, even when I changed from V2 to V3 and from V3 to V4 I always did around 20 skydives first. then I went to a "save" spot like Brento or Kjerag where I did another 10 jumps with high pulls before I took the WS to more damanding spots.


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