Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
clear and pull- safety

 

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bernard

Jun 9, 2012, 8:42 AM
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clear and pull- safety Can't Post

We all love skydiving but in a safe way. Following jump sequence may not occur according to my previous s/l instructor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gAzRXsc6HQ

Personaly I loved the old caracter building method but for my daughter I prefered the Aff method (french version of it) simply to avoid such a sequence.

But anyway I insisted she learned to jump low, simply because a complete skydiver must learn to exit low.

Conclusion the ideal method is a mix of the old one and the Aff method.

Your opinion is welcome because we all know we must master low exitsWinkWink


bernard

Jun 9, 2012, 8:45 AM
Post #2 of 31 (3896 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

hello, if you don't find the link move to youtube:

crazy clear and pull

you're welcome and sorry I am not a pc wonder,

bernieWink


adamUK  (C 104423)

Jun 9, 2012, 9:20 AM
Post #3 of 31 (3883 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

FIFY Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gAzRXsc6HQ


skinnay

Jun 9, 2012, 10:42 AM
Post #4 of 31 (3855 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We all love skydiving but in a safe way. Following jump sequence may not occur according to my previous s/l instructor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gAzRXsc6HQ

Personaly I loved the old caracter building method but for my daughter I prefered the Aff method (french version of it) simply to avoid such a sequence.

But anyway I insisted she learned to jump low, simply because a complete skydiver must learn to exit low.

Conclusion the ideal method is a mix of the old one and the Aff method.

Your opinion is welcome because we all know we must master low exitsWinkWink

There's no way in hell I would ever get on a plane again with someone with one hand on the strut and one hand on their hackey. But yeah.. never do that again.


virgin-burner

Jun 9, 2012, 12:35 PM
Post #5 of 31 (3827 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

as long as you're looking cool with shorts n'shit.. Crazy


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jun 10, 2012, 9:47 AM
Post #6 of 31 (3666 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone who's trained SL students for any length of time has seen plenty of unstable hop & pops. CrazyUnsure

That grabbing the hacky on the step shows a real lack of confidence on the student's part. He definitely needs a LOT more re-training.


Joellercoaster  (D 105792)

Jun 10, 2012, 12:18 PM
Post #7 of 31 (3643 views)
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Re: [skinnay] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There's no way in hell I would ever get on a plane again with someone with one hand on the strut and one hand on their hackey

You can see for a split second that he does indeed launch from two hands on the strut - just freaks out and lunges for his hackey straight away afterwards.

OP: AFF or SL, doesn't really matter: if you do this on your clear and pull, then your opening will suck Tongue


Quagmirian  (A 110392)

Jun 10, 2012, 12:31 PM
Post #8 of 31 (3638 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

Would it be fair to say that this sort of fumbling is less common for people who learned via static line? The only reason I ask is because you have to do several stable exits (in a row) on static line before they let you do your first hop-n-pop, whereas on AFF unstable exits are more likely to be 'soaked up' by the instructors.

-This post (and all my others, in fact) comes with a healthy disclaimer that I know nothing about instructing, or anything. Apologies in advance for any offence caused.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jun 10, 2012, 3:41 PM
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Re: [Quagmirian] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

Unstable first freefalls, no matter how stable DRCP's are, not uncommon.

Of course AFF students not pulling are not uncommon either.

And I've had my hand on my hackey on the step... at 1500'.Wink


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 10, 2012, 5:32 PM
Post #10 of 31 (3562 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Anyone who's trained SL students for any length of time has seen plenty of unstable hop & pops. CrazyUnsure

That grabbing the hacky on the step shows a real lack of confidence on the student's part. He definitely needs a LOT more re-training.

Wasn't the biggest problem that he dearched as he launched? I would have thought a nice hard arch would have made a hurried but good exit?


dthames  (B 37674)

Jun 10, 2012, 6:04 PM
Post #11 of 31 (3551 views)
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Re: [nigel99] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

The video shown could have been an AFF trained student on a hop and pop as easily as it could be a SL student on their first clear and pull. If you fail to do what you are taught, you will have bad form. i dearched on my first AFF jumps when I pulled, and I dearched on a SL practice pull. It you do it in SL, you are not at "terminal" which might make it a little less violent.

AFF has some benifit that SL does not and the other way around is also true. Someone has previously stated a mix might be the best and I agree.


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 10, 2012, 9:54 PM
Post #12 of 31 (3509 views)
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Re: [dthames] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The video shown could have been an AFF trained student on a hop and pop as easily as it could be a SL student on their first clear and pull. If you fail to do what you are taught, you will have bad form. i dearched on my first AFF jumps when I pulled, and I dearched on a SL practice pull. It you do it in SL, you are not at "terminal" which might make it a little less violent.

AFF has some benifit that SL does not and the other way around is also true. Someone has previously stated a mix might be the best and I agree.

I've got more static line exits than you have jumps Angelic not because of military but because I struggled with drcp. But I still remember doing a 10 second delay from 4k and a girl who'd gone through AFF was freaking out about doing a clear and pull from 4k.

I still think a hard arch would have fixed most of his issues.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jun 10, 2012, 10:02 PM
Post #13 of 31 (3505 views)
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Re: [nigel99] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wasn't the biggest problem that he dearched as he launched? I would have thought a nice hard arch would have made a hurried but good exit?
Absolutely. Smile

Back when we trained a lot of S/L, you'd see students do great arches for their PRCP jumps, then curl up and turn turtle on their first free fall.

One day I put a young man out on his first free fall. The pilot, a very experienced instructor himself, asked "How'd he do?"

I replied "The usual."

Pilot said "Rolled on his back and dumped?"

I said "Yep, you got it."LaughLaugh


piisfish

Jun 11, 2012, 12:02 AM
Post #14 of 31 (3486 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

isn't the guy doing like everyone else, training for BASE from the plane ?
some want to practice the tracking, some the wingsuit.. This one tries the aerials Tongue


nigel99  (D 1)

Jun 11, 2012, 12:41 AM
Post #15 of 31 (3477 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Wasn't the biggest problem that he dearched as he launched? I would have thought a nice hard arch would have made a hurried but good exit?
Absolutely. Smile

Back when we trained a lot of S/L, you'd see students do great arches for their PRCP jumps, then curl up and turn turtle on their first free fall.

One day I put a young man out on his first free fall. The pilot, a very experienced instructor himself, asked "How'd he do?"

I replied "The usual."

Pilot said "Rolled on his back and dumped?"

I said "Yep, you got it."LaughLaugh

LaughLaugh


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jun 11, 2012, 4:55 AM
Post #16 of 31 (3418 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

That was AWESOME, compared to my HnP on jump 18.
Went unstable much like video guy, but deployed BETWEEN my legs, and spun not once but TWICE through my risers.
I had lines wrapped around my right ankle and my arm was twisted between the right side front and back risers.

I unwrapped my ankle, dragged my arm out of the risers, (got burns on both), looked at my canopy (which is now square and stable) looked at my risers both were twisted around each other front to back.
Then I looked reached grabbed and pulled then cleared my cables and landed a nice big white fluffy cloud like reserve.

Walked back in to the hanger, sat down for 30 mins went up to an instructor and said. Let go back up.SlySlySly that was almost 1200 jumps ago and it's STILL a vivid memorySmile


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jun 11, 2012, 5:47 AM
Post #17 of 31 (3390 views)
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Re: [bernard] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe he's practicing for a Mr Bill jump. Plenty of first attempts at them involve tumbling and pilot chutes going every which way past the jumpers. SmileSmile


ShotterMG  (Student)

Jun 11, 2012, 7:40 AM
Post #18 of 31 (3349 views)
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Re: [councilman24] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

And I've had my hand on my hackey on the step... at 1500'.

Why?


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jun 11, 2012, 8:44 AM
Post #19 of 31 (3331 views)
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Re: [Squeak] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Walked back in to the hanger, sat down for 30 mins went up to an instructor and said. Let go back up.SlySlySly that was almost 1200 jumps ago and it's STILL a vivid memorySmile
F-ing great story. Cool

They must not have had bowling in OZ back then. TongueLaugh


JohnRich  (D License)

Jun 11, 2012, 10:12 AM
Post #20 of 31 (3306 views)
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Re: [ShotterMG] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And I've had my hand on my hackey on the step... at 1500'.

Why?

Because he was on the step at 1,500'.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jun 11, 2012, 5:36 PM
Post #21 of 31 (3223 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Walked back in to the hanger, sat down for 30 mins went up to an instructor and said. Let go back up.SlySlySly that was almost 1200 jumps ago and it's STILL a vivid memorySmile
F-ing great story. Cool

They must not have had bowling in OZ back then. TongueLaugh
It's a decision the instructor still regrets to this day :LaughLaughLaughLaugh


DougH  (D License)

Jun 12, 2012, 7:25 AM
Post #22 of 31 (3153 views)
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Re: [skinnay] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There's no way in hell I would ever get on a plane again with someone with one hand on the strut and one hand on their hackey. But yeah.. never do that again.

Sit on the ground and knit then.

He isn't the first student who panicked on a clear and pull, dearched and lost stability, and then did a rushed pitch. He won't be the last one to do it either.

He didn't have his hand on his hackey on the step, he just rushed to pull when he should of focused on arching.


(This post was edited by DougH on Jun 12, 2012, 7:26 AM)


Andy9o8  (D License)

Jun 15, 2012, 6:23 AM
Post #23 of 31 (2867 views)
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Re: [DougH] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
There's no way in hell I would ever get on a plane again with someone with one hand on the strut and one hand on their hackey. But yeah.. never do that again.

Sit on the ground and knit then.

He isn't the first student who panicked on a clear and pull, dearched and lost stability, and then did a rushed pitch. He won't be the last one to do it either.

He didn't have his hand on his hackey on the step, he just rushed to pull when he should of focused on arching.

Practically every S/L student on their first freefall I've ever seen leaves the step immediately reaching to pull. It's the natural lizard-brain reaction to not being hooked-up for the first time. It's the arch that's everything.


dthames  (B 37674)

Jun 15, 2012, 10:44 AM
Post #24 of 31 (2813 views)
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Re: [Andy9o8] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
There's no way in hell I would ever get on a plane again with someone with one hand on the strut and one hand on their hackey. But yeah.. never do that again.

Sit on the ground and knit then.

He isn't the first student who panicked on a clear and pull, dearched and lost stability, and then did a rushed pitch. He won't be the last one to do it either.

He didn't have his hand on his hackey on the step, he just rushed to pull when he should of focused on arching.

Practically every S/L student on their first freefall I've ever seen leaves the step immediately reaching to pull. It's the natural lizard-brain reaction to not being hooked-up for the first time. It's the arch that's everything.

If you think back to the jumps right before, when you do have to pull the practice device, if you don't go for it pretty fast, you will be snatched by the opening and miss the pull. So, it has been trained in, to hurry. I thought I did fair. maybe a bit quick still...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBH1Znjew6A


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Jun 15, 2012, 9:29 PM
Post #25 of 31 (2745 views)
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Re: [dthames] clear and pull- safety [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice job. Cool


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