Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Side-spin video

 

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jerry81

Jun 9, 2012, 7:38 AM
Post #1 of 31 (5725 views)
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Side-spin video Can't Post

A friend posted this video on FB yesterday. I don't know when or where it happened (the plane is based in Italy, though), but apparently the main was deployed somewhere around 700meters, after a spin of 2500m.
(Never mind the cloud cover)

To me, it looks like the TI caused/exacerbated the problem by trying to control the passenger's legs with his own, starting the turn that continued into a spin.

In my opinion, a hard arch with the arms and legs spread out wide would have been much better than doing that thing with the legs. That's not to say that I'm a firm believer in jumping out, arching and expecting to end up in the proper position- I think a tandem exit should be flown from the moment you leave the plane, same as any other skydive.

Of course, I'm a relative noob with about 600 tandem jumps so far, but I've jumped from slow planes and fast planes, side doors and tailgates, and I haven't always exited poised right into the airflow, either. It just seems to me that if you have the passenger attached correctly, moving their mass around while you fly your body is not that big an issue.

Oh, and I've also been taught that you should deploy the drogue if you're spinning right side up. I have no idea if this TI couldn't do it or if he thought he could still rectify the situation and toss it in a stable position.


TheCaptain  (D License)

Jun 9, 2012, 8:08 AM
Post #2 of 31 (5653 views)
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Re: [jerry81] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In a side spin he last thing you want to do is go into a hard arch. This will put your body farther away from the student creating more blades on a propeller. Once the rotations speed up it will put the student farther away from you so you end up with the student torso, your torso, your legs and the students legs being 4 blads of a propeller. You should watch the side spin instructors video, in a side spin you need to grab hold of the student with your arms and legs, this eleminates more propeller blades Eventually the spin will disapat and you can right the position and throw the drogue.
I would say what the instructor did wrong was to keep is arms out and an arch in his upper body, he should have grab his student with his arms.


(This post was edited by TheCaptain on Jun 9, 2012, 8:11 AM)


jerry81

Jun 9, 2012, 8:57 AM
Post #3 of 31 (5627 views)
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Re: [TheCaptain] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm clear on that. I was saying he actually started the spin by grabbing his legs and, yes, arching the upper body. I've never really analyzed how I bring a tandem that has tipped sideways on exit the right way down again..I just turn my body belly to earth and bring the passenger along.


BMFin

Jun 9, 2012, 9:30 AM
Post #4 of 31 (5611 views)
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Re: [jerry81] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

Damn those clouds look sweet..


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 9, 2012, 1:45 PM
Post #5 of 31 (5533 views)
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Re: [jerry81] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a side spin experience early into my tandem jumping career. What I learned from that experience was that if I try to fix my student on the exit I'll lose. If I fly my body and just make it work by flying me, I'll win.

Notice that things go from sort of annoying to "holy shit" when the instructor leg locks the student and tries to force an arch? That's what happened to me.


coconutmonkey  (D 24601)

Jun 11, 2012, 10:43 AM
Post #6 of 31 (5206 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

The distance of the video makes me wonder about the experience of the videographer. There is an argument to keep a safe dstance for the TM to correct the issue but try and stay in the same zip code...


pchapman  (D 1014)

Jun 11, 2012, 1:28 PM
Post #7 of 31 (5103 views)
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Re: [coconutmonkey] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The distance of the video makes me wonder about the experience of the videographer.

I'll offer an alternate opinion.

The video flyer still stayed on level with a drogueless tandem, while flying head up. That's pretty good in itself, and more than is planned or expected of him.

Keeping close to fast falling drogueless spinning tandems is not part of the job description, unlike for an AFF instructor to chase a spinning student.

The exact quality of the student's video may not have seemed to be of much importance to the video flyer at the time either.

It sure wasn't on the one jump where I chased a long tandem side spin. I admit to getting a bit [typo fixed] high on them, as they drifted off horizontally too, with me getting 50' high and 100' away while I transitioned to sit and then to stand. Maybe I could have been quicker off the mark and also practiced my head down, but after the drogue was out and the spin stopped I swooped in for the shot just before the deployment.

If you want to rule the guy out for video flyer of the year, fine, but generally I'd say the criticism is a little harsh.


(This post was edited by pchapman on Jun 11, 2012, 4:09 PM)


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 11, 2012, 3:20 PM
Post #8 of 31 (5044 views)
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Re: [coconutmonkey] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The distance of the video makes me wonder about the experience of the videographer. There is an argument to keep a safe dstance for the TM to correct the issue but try and stay in the same zip code...

I think it was SAFER for him to be further away, especially provided the clouds they bust at the bottom end. Last thing I'd want to do is loose sight of them while near them and low.


Halfpastniner  (D 30747)

Jun 11, 2012, 4:42 PM
Post #9 of 31 (5010 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Damn those clouds look sweet..

+1 Those were amazing


swoopgaz  (E 1964)

Jun 11, 2012, 5:43 PM
Post #10 of 31 (4984 views)
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Re: [jerry81] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

This would have been prevented simply by the tm doing a half decent exit by presenting to the relative wind, wether its by diving out or turning out poised on exit. Also flying the exit instead of worrying about what your student is doing. Nice job though on sorting it out and getting a canopy out seen as they were drouge side down. Drouge side up its easy, just throw the drouge.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Jun 12, 2012, 12:20 AM
Post #11 of 31 (4884 views)
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Re: [jerry81] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

 I'd be interested to know his experience level....

That was not good at all, he let that go on for far too long, and letting it go can get you places you don't want to be.

Its better to dump your reserve rather than let a side spin carry on if you can't fix it instantly.

That boy would be in line for a bollocking and a bit of revisiting of his training from me....


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 12, 2012, 3:11 AM
Post #12 of 31 (4858 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

How about this recovery?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET9jfZtcQsU


feuergnom  (D License)

Jun 12, 2012, 5:10 AM
Post #13 of 31 (4822 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

one thing I do not get at all: strongs sidespin-recoveryvideo has been around for a really long time now, so TI's and foremost I/E's should be familiar with the technique of getting out of a sidespin.

if not it should be at least reviewed on safety day and - if you have such a thing on your DZ while doing refresher-training....


BrianM  (D 661)

Jun 12, 2012, 4:49 PM
Post #14 of 31 (4612 views)
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Re: [swoopgaz] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
they were drouge side down. Drouge side up its easy, just throw the drouge.

Looks like drogue side up to me.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jun 13, 2012, 2:05 AM
Post #15 of 31 (4553 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
that was very nicely done


swoopgaz  (E 1964)

Jun 13, 2012, 5:03 AM
Post #16 of 31 (4523 views)
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Re: [BrianM] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
they were drouge side down. Drouge side up its easy, just throw the drouge.

Looks like drogue side up to me.

Correct, my bad. First time I watched I thought just throw the drouge, your drouge side up, watched it the second time not paying as much attention and thought they were drouge side down.

Side spin, drouge side up throw the drouge, drouge side down du,p the reserve. Will all be avoided by a good solid exit. It only takes 10 seconds in a side spin to black out.


Bibabarb  (D 80771)

Jun 13, 2012, 5:57 AM
Post #17 of 31 (4499 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

Can anyone of you tell me where i can buy the side-spin video. Do know it exists but tried to find it on the internet (als checked the Strong website) but i am not able to find it.

And is it also available on DVD - PAL version

Thanks in advance


theonlyski  (D License)

Jun 13, 2012, 6:09 AM
Post #18 of 31 (4493 views)
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Re: [Bibabarb] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Can anyone of you tell me where i can buy the side-spin video. Do know it exists but tried to find it on the internet (als checked the Strong website) but i am not able to find it.

And is it also available on DVD - PAL version

Thanks in advance

Call/Email Strong. Wink


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 13, 2012, 6:36 AM
Post #19 of 31 (4487 views)
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Re: [Bibabarb] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

You can buy it from Strong Enterprises. They offer DVD, not sure about PAL DVD, but I believe that NTSC DVD will play on your computer with no problem.


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Jun 13, 2012, 6:36 AM)


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 13, 2012, 6:41 AM
Post #20 of 31 (4484 views)
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Re: [swoopgaz] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Side spin, drouge side up throw the drouge, drouge side down dump the reserve.

What it the logic of dumping the reserve instad of giving drogue a chance? Both could entangle, so starting with drogue would make more sense to me. You would still have the "reserve option" left.

On the side-spin DVD from Strong they lean towards going for the drogue, saying that the reserve has still a very good chance of going cleanly past the entangled (with leg/hand) drogue. Has anything changed since the time this DVD was made?


ufk22  (D 16168)

Jun 13, 2012, 10:29 AM
Post #21 of 31 (4408 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That video must be almost 10 years old. It was shot at skydive Hutchinson (long closed) and the tandem I has been out of the sport almost as long.


jumpwally  (D License)

Jun 13, 2012, 11:41 AM
Post #22 of 31 (4395 views)
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Re: [ufk22] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

So its not relevant ? who cares who and where.......it was an illistration of a great recovery job...Crazy


jumpwally  (D License)

Jun 13, 2012, 11:43 AM
Post #23 of 31 (4393 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Damn those clouds look sweet..

..and more cloud busting on the WWW......Wink


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 13, 2012, 12:05 PM
Post #24 of 31 (4384 views)
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Re: [jumpwally] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Damn those clouds look sweet..

..and more cloud busting on the WWW......Wink

Jumping thru clouds is legal (yes, there 200 more countries, besides the US Wink ).


rinaldi524  (D 24196)

Jun 15, 2012, 10:51 AM
Post #25 of 31 (4160 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Side-spin video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You can buy it from Strong Enterprises. They offer DVD, not sure about PAL DVD, but I believe that NTSC DVD will play on your computer with no problem.

$12.99 plus shipping for the Tandem Side Spin Phenomenon DVD. I have them in stock. tandem@strongparachutes.com


(This post was edited by rinaldi524 on Jun 15, 2012, 10:55 AM)


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