Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Getting the drouge in the shot " help "

 

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spencer  (D 208)

May 25, 2012, 12:24 AM
Post #1 of 26 (2815 views)
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Getting the drouge in the shot " help " Can't Post

I have done a few camera jumps in my time, but however, I have this bloody bad habit that I want to get rid off, so all you budding camera guys I need advise.
I am tall at 6ft a slim build, I want to fly a little lower and more up right, I have tried some small wings which I found very restrictive and didnt get on with them. But I have been told with my shape I should have a very good range, its easy to say that but alt harder to do.
I fly with my arms old school , how I was taught in aff, but have been told to bring my arms in and hands closer together , like there over a beach ball position, which should sit me up a little.
So I am practicing this. next week I am doing a half hr slot in the tunnel to try out.
Any advice I would be grateful.


dragon2  (D 101989)

May 25, 2012, 3:53 AM
Post #2 of 26 (2780 views)
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Re: [spencer] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

This is how I fly, see the first attachment. Big wings, keep them closed when needed, and if needed put on some lead. The passenger here was a 16yr old lightweight kid + "normal" weight TM, so I have some wing open. Bringing my elbows in closes the wings for heavier tandem pairs.
I was flying a bit flat here for a moment, usually I look up a little more.
On opening this is exaggerated, see the second attachment.
Attachments: 188734_156186254439087_100001431409373_334290_4031469_n.jpg (27.5 KB)
  200291_156186264439086_100001431409373_334291_2179750_n.jpg (31.7 KB)


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

May 25, 2012, 6:16 AM
Post #3 of 26 (2750 views)
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Re: [spencer] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

a shot of the drogue certainly helps tell the story and often the tandem pair is highlighted with the drogue waaay above them... Better, however is a point in the skydive where the video person USES those wings and run UP 10 feet or so, to grab a NICE shot of the drogue Wink. Certainly stay well away. but go ahead.. ShockedCool get up, on level with it......Shocked
Stay for 3 seconds, Then drop back down to the happy tandem. Laugh Try to do it while the TM may be doing turns... It adds to the video and also demonstrates the abilities of the 'camera'..

Of course you need to get all the First priority shots...exit, close up, big smiles, deployment etc. and so the extra step that i suggest may not be sensible on cessna jumps...Unimpressed But, if you're getting 13 Five or 14 grand.. it is a nice shot.... and worth dirt diving with the TM about before boarding....The full frame shot of the dancing drogue.... is a nice visual Smile to add to a souvenir of someones first jump...


jmy
*

* such a move is fine & fun with the tandem pair and video person ONLY in the air...
extra special consideration needs to apply whenever there are others on the skydive... right???


linestretch  (D 21060)

May 25, 2012, 11:48 AM
Post #4 of 26 (2680 views)
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Re: [spencer] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Or another thought (and it's much easier on the back) is flying on your back. No need to arch and you can always get the students face in the shot. I use a camera jacket w/ fairly big wings....and I'm not a fatty. I learned by chasing tandems w/ a sweatshirt that had wings on it.
Attachments: DSC07950.JPG (108 KB)


holie  (A License)

May 31, 2012, 5:02 AM
Post #5 of 26 (2449 views)
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Re: [linestretch] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

like said above ...

Cool
Attachments: drogue.JPG (93.7 KB)


dragon2  (D 101989)

May 31, 2012, 9:49 AM
Post #6 of 26 (2420 views)
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Re: [holie] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Flying up to the drogue is nice and all, but it looks to me like you are way too close to it. For a drogue shot you should go up and back ,not just up, that's not safe.
Attachments: _SAZ1223.jpg (43.3 KB)


PharmerPhil  (D 23899)

May 31, 2012, 1:28 PM
Post #7 of 26 (2395 views)
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Re: [spencer] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been biting my tongue watching this thread, but the last two pics confirm what I have felt all along. Including the drogue in the shot, particularly from the top, doesn't add anything of value to the customer's product. Maybe people are just trying to impress themselves and other jumpers with their "cool" shots. But you should always keep in mind who is paying for the video and what they want. They want themselves featured first and foremost. Most, if they even see the drogue, are simply confused by it and have to have it explained (how many time have you heard their friends/family ask "the parachute comes out right away?").

Flying up and around the tandem can show varying angles, which I feel can make it interesting and break the monotony of a single angle (ala handcam), but flying so far up that you see the drogue and completely lose the shot of who is jumping doesn't add anything IMHO and wastes valuable shooting time. Flying below to show the drogue is slightly less detracting insofar as you can at least still see the customer's face (given a wide enough angle lens and proper exposure). But shot from the top? Not in my, or most customers' opinions. BTW, that first shot is definitely taken from the death zone.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jun 1, 2012, 1:19 AM
Post #8 of 26 (2359 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Opinions may vary on that... After I get the shots of the passenger's face I'm happy with, I like the TM to turn while I go back and up, to get a dynamic overview shot of the surroundings (in this case, the nice clouds in the background). This only takes a few seconds. I stick to the passenger's face the rest of the 30-45 seconds of freefall.

(BTW my photo makes it look like I was much farther away than the video does, it was shot with a 10.5mm fisheye)


(This post was edited by dragon2 on Jun 1, 2012, 1:21 AM)


adamT  (D 26819)

Jun 1, 2012, 5:57 AM
Post #9 of 26 (2316 views)
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Re: [PharmerPhil] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're jumping from 12k+ then you have more then enough time to get all the shots. The customers will be much happier then 60 secs tight on their flapping face.


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Jun 1, 2012, 10:12 AM
Post #10 of 26 (2297 views)
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Re: [adamT] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you're jumping from 12k+ then you have more then enough time to get all the shots. The customers will be much happier then 60 secs tight on their flapping face.

+1 Smile

Blue Skies,
Jason


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 1, 2012, 10:27 AM
Post #11 of 26 (2293 views)
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Re: [adamT] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The customers will be much happier then 60 secs tight on their flapping face.

While that might be true, a picture of a drouge is of no interest to anyone but another jumper. 60 seconds of tight face shots might no be the way to go, but keeping the tandem pair the center of attention ceratinly is.

In any case, the attached pic of the drouge is downright dangerous, and not a place any camera flyer should be at any point during the jump.


freefalljason  (D 26672)

Jun 1, 2012, 1:09 PM
Post #12 of 26 (2265 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess everyone has their opinion of what the student wants or what makes the perfect tandem video but I agree with others that have said that the up close shot of the students face isn't all of the picture.

I remember watching a video that DSE produced with Norman Kent about flying camera and I can't remember Mr. Kent's exact words but it was to the effect of " don't be in such a hurry after exit to get right in the students face. Take some time coming in from above them to convey the visual of the ground below and the vastness of the sky, then get in there and get the close up."

I like getting the "pop-up" shot but I completly agree that it needs to be outside of the "cone of death" (which the shot you were referring to WAS NOT). I have lots of students comment that they like that shot.

I also completly agree that the video is about the student and not about how awesome the vidiot can head down carve around the tandem pair as a display of his or her "Mad Skillz". Tongue

Blue Skies,
Jason


mircan  (D 32291)

Jun 3, 2012, 1:47 PM
Post #13 of 26 (2194 views)
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Re: [freefalljason] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I remember watching a video that DSE produced with Norman Kent about flying camera and I can't remember Mr. Kent's exact words but it was to the effect of " don't be in such a hurry after exit to get right in the students face. Take some time coming in from above them to convey the visual of the ground below and the vastness of the sky, then get in there and get the close up."

I watched that video and I also remember Mr. Kent`s opinion. It`s reasonable and usable. But when all you jump is c182 from 9-10k feet... No time Crazy


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 3, 2012, 8:13 PM
Post #14 of 26 (2160 views)
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Re: [freefalljason] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I guess everyone has their opinion of what the student wants or what makes the perfect tandem video but I agree with others that have said that the up close shot of the students face isn't all of the picture.

I'm not advocating for that at all, I was saying that shooting the drouge, as the up-close focal point of any shot is not in the interest of the student, even if you ignore the obvious safety issue.

I move around quite a bit looking for different shots, and looking to present different points of view to the student. Some of it is based on the background, and some of it is based on the performance of the student. Be it low angle lighting, insteresting clouds on one side or the other, or a giant booger floating out of the students nose, there are a variety of reasons to keep moving, and look for the 'best opportunity'.

Whatever that may be, the tandem pair should always be in the center of the frame, with the exception of opening shots, when you can bump them down a notch to get the canopy in the shot as well.

Quote:
Mr. Kent's exact words but it was to the effect of " don't be in such a hurry after exit to get right in the students face. Take some time coming in from above them to convey the visual of the ground below and the vastness of the sky

That's a great shot, and one that I really like to include when I can. The problem with that shot is that you can't have it, and the plane flying away in the background of the exit shots, without taking the time to back up and float up to get that angle dropping in from above. If you leave before the tandem, and stay low to keep the plane in the shot as they slide down the hill, you're in the exact opposite slot that the other shot requires.

If I stick the exit, and am down there on that line that keeps the plane in the shot, I'll float up to the pair after the drouge is out and do some close-up stuff. Later in the jump, I'll go for an orbit where I pop up to about where a 4-way camera guy would be (not quite as steep), and take a lap around the tandem. It gives some of that perspective.

If I'm late on the exit, and not down in the slot to get the plane, I'll pop up on the hill and let them fall away from me so I can drop in on them once the drouge is set. Norman is right, it really does put the whole thing in perspective, and when you can get it with some backlighting from a low sun (or sunset) it's all that much sweeter.


jtval  (D 26340)

Jun 3, 2012, 10:14 PM
Post #15 of 26 (2149 views)
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Re:Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been a while since I shot tandem video as a regular weekend flyer.
But, my normal routine was to exit slightly early, Just enough to get the pair and the a/c in the frame. Then, I would allow them the fall below me so I can get the drogue deployment as I carved around on level and in front of them. I settle there until deployment. went to my back as I filmed the opening, and tracked away at the same time. This can be done from 10,000ft if you are familiar with the TM routine. 4-8 seconds of video is A LOT when you the way I described. Once, I settled in front of the pair, I would ALWAYS make faces and geek the student. Most of the time, they do it back and it makes good video. Sometimes I would hi-five them. Doesn't always come out as I would like (I need a 10MM lens. I only have a 15mm)
Attachments: IMG_4237small.jpg (86.8 KB)
  IMG_4911small.jpg (76.8 KB)
  071124Danny (2)Small.jpg (126 KB)
  071202 Erica small.jpg (94.3 KB)
  Highest five small.jpg (90.6 KB)


spencer  (D 208)

Jun 4, 2012, 1:46 AM
Post #16 of 26 (2132 views)
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Re: [jtval] Re:Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry I think some of you have miss understood me, When I say getting the drouge in the shot, I meant getting under the tandem, but up nice and close, so you see both there faces and the drouge,
The exit when they leave, keeping in real close, and keeping with them.
I spent half a hr in the tunnel on my back, which \i found a nightmare to try and keep, and im going back next week for another half hr, I think the shots I am trying to get might involve a little free flying. Practice makes perfect.


BMFin

Jun 4, 2012, 3:56 AM
Post #17 of 26 (2119 views)
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Re: [spencer] Re:Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

One solution is to dock on the customer go slightly lower and fly sideways for a vertical composition.

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/...170430_2621418_n.jpg

Example was taken with 8mm (APS-C body), but it can be done with 10mm also.


spencer  (D 208)

Jun 4, 2012, 7:03 AM
Post #18 of 26 (2088 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Re:Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

nice, just needs a little closer


davelepka  (D 21448)

Jun 4, 2012, 7:14 AM
Post #19 of 26 (2085 views)
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Re: [jtval] Re:Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Thanks for sharing, but the 3rd and 4th pics you attached are not what you should be doing, or encouraging others to do.

A rigging error or equipment failure at that time would be a real problem for all three of you. You well within the 'cone of danger' getting those shots (even more so if you're shooting a 15mm lens), and there's no excuse for intentionally going there on a regular basis.

It's simple concept, the further up you go from the tandem pair, the further back you need to be. The ratio should be close to 1 to 1, in that if you go up 10ft, you should also back up 10 ft.


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

Jun 5, 2012, 9:38 PM
Post #20 of 26 (1980 views)
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Re: [spencer] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Spencer,
I get these kind of shots on my back and just in front of the pair, legs and feet at about arm pit area.

As you said, just takes some practice :)

Have fun and stay safe!!
Attachments: FreeFall10xx.jpg (193 KB)


spencer  (D 208)

Jun 6, 2012, 8:34 AM
Post #21 of 26 (1931 views)
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Re: [BlueSBDeath] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Now where talking, thats the shot Im after getting, and yes be safe, and practice, and a little poorer, well alot poorer.


gilead1  (D 26)

Jun 6, 2012, 9:18 PM
Post #22 of 26 (1870 views)
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Re: [spencer] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is mine
I'm using a wing and a ringsight to get those shots,

You must be very very careful not to get into the "Death zone"

Good luck
Attachments: Drouge.jpg (270 KB)
  Drouge(1).jpg (258 KB)


gofastfrance  (D License)

Jun 7, 2012, 12:20 PM
Post #23 of 26 (1803 views)
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Re: [spencer] Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ishootu

Jun 7, 2012, 2:43 PM
Post #24 of 26 (1782 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Re:Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

+ 1 no need to be in that position when the main deploys prematurely


jtval  (D 26340)

Jun 9, 2012, 7:22 PM
Post #25 of 26 (1672 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Re:Getting the drouge in the shot " help " [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Thanks for sharing, but the 3rd and 4th pics you attached are not what you should be doing, or encouraging others to do.

A rigging error or equipment failure at that time would be a real problem for all three of you. You well within the 'cone of danger' getting those shots (even more so if you're shooting a 15mm lens), and there's no excuse for intentionally going there on a regular basis.

It's simple concept, the further up you go from the tandem pair, the further back you need to be. The ratio should be close to 1 to 1, in that if you go up 10ft, you should also back up 10 ft.

Thanks for the tip. I can agree with that.


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