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Tandem jump goes to sh*t...

 

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mircan  (D 32291)

May 24, 2012, 3:49 AM
Post #1 of 230 (12532 views)
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Tandem jump goes to sh*t... Can't Post

I did a search but could not find reference to THIS!

Any comments?

Sorry if it is a repost...


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
Moderator
May 24, 2012, 4:10 AM
Post #2 of 230 (12418 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Apart from....

That is truly horrible, so close to a fatality.
She obviously didn't want to jump, why force her?
Were the laterals tightened properly?
Who in their right mind let this video public?

I hope she got her money back and then some.


VTmotoMike08  (D 30399)

May 24, 2012, 4:11 AM
Post #3 of 230 (12415 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

DAMN! Well, I remember a couple months ago USPA released an advisory about an elderly female passenger who almost fell out of the harness... I guess you just found itMadPirate


mircan  (D 32291)

May 24, 2012, 4:16 AM
Post #4 of 230 (12401 views)
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Re: [VTmotoMike08] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Somebody linked it on the FB, and I was surprised it didn`t show up earlier... Unsure

I`m a fresh TM but I mostly do video. While I was watching this it for the first time I was just thinking what would I do? As videographer?

As TI, I would not jump. It was pretty obvious this person don`t want to either.


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
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May 24, 2012, 4:16 AM
Post #5 of 230 (12399 views)
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Re: [VTmotoMike08] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
DAMN! Well, I remember a couple months ago USPA released an advisory about an elderly female passenger who almost fell out of the harness... I guess you just found itMadPirate

It was UPT, USPA just passed it along


Premier cpoxon  (D 11665)
Moderator
May 24, 2012, 4:19 AM
Post #6 of 230 (12393 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

The only saving grace is he gets the drogue out. The way it was starting to spin up is very reminiscent of the (Finnish?) fatality that is featured on Strong's Side Spin video, where the laterals weren't tightened sufficiently and the separation between the instructor and student caused them to spin (until impact as they blacked out and there was no AAD fitted).


FreeflyGoat  (D 26046)

May 24, 2012, 4:37 AM
Post #7 of 230 (12371 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Goosebumps just watching this :/ The harness could of been perfectly adjusted and still had this happen the way she was basically sitting down and sliding out of the harness in the door with the TI standing up. If this lady had been a family member of mine I would have kicked that TI's a$$ upon seeing the video.


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

May 24, 2012, 4:46 AM
Post #8 of 230 (12362 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh My God!!!!!


there was MAYBE a 3 chances outta TEN , likelihood of that event finishing off... safely...Unsure


very relieved for the TM.. that he got her safely to the ground..Unimpressed

MY pulse is racing,, i bet the same for the video person and the TM...


yikes....

NOT everybody who "thinks" they wanna skydive... SHOULD skydive..imho


jt


jhh166  (B License)

May 24, 2012, 5:06 AM
Post #9 of 230 (12341 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

 I really did not think she was going to stay in the harness at deployment.

Is it legal to force a tandem student out the door if they decide they don't want to jump (even if its already jump run)? How about the waivers still being valid when the jumper is no longer participating at will and being forced out the door?

Had she died, a wuffo would have viewed her actions at the door as she did not want to jump and she changed her mind.

I think it is amusing to watch a student being pushed or pulled (aff) of the aircraft, al beit I am not so sure how smart it is to post it online. There could have been some stock footage thrown on there right to the point they roll out the door.


Abedy  (D 10153)

May 24, 2012, 5:26 AM
Post #10 of 230 (12305 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I did a search but could not find reference to THIS!

Any comments?

Yes... "Video not available in your country" I wonder why? Any music along? If yes, the royalty fee grabbing authority is behind this.
Anyone knows an alternative source?


feuergnom  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 5:29 AM
Post #11 of 230 (12301 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

apart from the very, very, very scary freefall (holy fucking shit!):
no proper suit for the passenger, no head protection, flimsy shoes...... but thats just for starters.....

then: why would a TI want to make a standing exit with an elderly pax????? have her sit on your lap and roll out of the door - especially in a plane with a huge door like this

why TF didn't the videoguy shove them back in or block the door? there was plenty of time to signal the TI a big fucking NO! at least that is what I would do as a videoperson.... no chance for lucky heroism in freefall

as soon as she tried to back in he should have broken off the exit. as long as no limbs are outside you always have the opportunity and also the DUTY to stay in the plane should a pax make clear he doesn't want to jump.... and that lady clearly dind't want to go

I am truly amazed that people pull off stunts like these in suehappy america....


edit to add: the ability to jump tandems is not about getting the drogue out, deploy the main and land safely. thats only the small part. the bigger and more important one (i guess thats the real basics) is about knowing when to make the right decisions with his individual passenger - be it on the ground, on the way to alti in the plane or in freefall. this TI clearly forgot the basics Unimpressed


(This post was edited by feuergnom on May 24, 2012, 5:34 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 24, 2012, 5:29 AM
Post #12 of 230 (12299 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Any comments?

To the DZO - where's the y-strap mod?

To the TI - how many times does she have to say no?

To the camera guy - you put this on Youtube?


mircan  (D 32291)

May 24, 2012, 5:30 AM
Post #13 of 230 (12295 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don`t know why it`s banned, but here is Sendspace link


feuergnom  (D License)

May 24, 2012, 5:36 AM
Post #14 of 230 (12287 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

I bet they will have the y-mod added by now. hopefully!


(This post was edited by feuergnom on May 24, 2012, 5:36 AM)


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 24, 2012, 5:39 AM
Post #15 of 230 (12278 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I bet they will have the y-mod added by now

Yeah, did you catch the name of the DZ at the beginning of the video? That's the same DZO flew 1000's of loads, with 20+ jumpers per load, on timed-out control cables and airframe inspections on his Otter. You really think this will get his attention when only one person was at risk?


piisfish

May 24, 2012, 5:39 AM
Post #16 of 230 (12280 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

WOOOOOW, scary. can someone save this vid before it is pulled down ?

As a videoman I don't know what I would have done during the jump, but I would for sure have deleted the references to the DZ on the video Unsure


piisfish

May 24, 2012, 5:42 AM
Post #17 of 230 (12269 views)
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Re: [feuergnom] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
why TF didn't the videoguy shove them back in or block the door? there was plenty of time to signal the TI a big fucking NO! at least that is what I would do as a videoperson....
he was too busy trying to grab the passenger's hands so she would stop grabbing the plane Unimpressed


Abedy  (D 10153)

May 24, 2012, 6:35 AM
Post #18 of 230 (12213 views)
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Re: [mircan] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don`t know why it`s banned, but here is Sendspace link

Thank you very much for helping.
Watched it and ... what else to say: Had it been my mum (one year younger only) I would have kicked the shite out of this fartknocker TI. Where to start... first of all she made it more than clear that she didn't want to jump and he forcibly shoved her out.

OMG I hope his license gets punched! Mad


davelepka  (D 21448)

May 24, 2012, 7:06 AM
Post #19 of 230 (12169 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
first of all she made it more than clear that she didn't want to jump and he forcibly shoved her out.

Exactly, where is the standard of care?

If I was walking into a building, and an elderly woman was also approaching, wouldn't you stop and hold the door for her? How about if she was 20 ft behind you, wouldn't you stand there longer to wait for her than you would a young, fit person? I know I would.

Ditto for a tandem. When a young, fit pax is looking out the door saying, 'Oh my god, oh my god' or even 'I don't know if I can do this, I don't know if I can do this', maybe then you push on through with the exit and leave the aircraft. If the same student has a hand on the door frame to steady themselves (people aren't used to being strapped to anyone), then you pull their hand in and place it on their harness.

When you have an elderly passenger who is repeatedly saying 'No', and physically pushing back from the door frame, you have to recognize that and stand down. Even if you take a go-around and see if they want to reconsider, you simply can't just shove them out of the plane.

The fact is that elderly passengers are more likely to suffer injury just based on the reduction of strength and flexibility, and the reduction of bone mass that comes with age. Due to this, their complete cooperation becomes even more critical to making an injury-free jump, and a TI needs to take these things into account.

Shit, just bouncing her shin off the door frame could have been eough for a tib-fib fracture, and at that age there's no guarantee that it will ever heal. What will leave a monster bruise on a 25 year old could leave an injury on a 75 year old that will last the rest of their days. Ever see a 75 year old on crutches? Most of them son't have the strength to use crutches, so the lady would have been relegated to a wheelchair for the rest of her days.

One lesson I learned a long time ago is that skydiving isn't for everyone.


BMFin

May 24, 2012, 7:17 AM
Post #20 of 230 (12148 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I did a search but could not find reference to THIS!

Any comments?

Yes... "Video not available in your country" I wonder why? Any music along? If yes, the royalty fee grabbing authority is behind this.
Anyone knows an alternative source?

A good Workaround for this problem is to use a proxy. For example in firefox, install an add on called stealthy and you can then contact youtube via proxy from a country of your choice.


Abedy  (D 10153)

May 24, 2012, 8:07 AM
Post #21 of 230 (12081 views)
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Re: [BMFin] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
For example in firefox, install an add on called stealthy and you can then contact youtube via proxy from a country of your choice.

I have been a devoted Opera user for many years and thus had to do some search.
(Yes, I wanted to do so before but now I felt motivated enough.)

I came across YouTubeUnblocker and it also works with Opera (see pic attached), heh heh! Cool (Also works with Firefox, Chrome and Safari.)
If anyone needs help with installing it on Opera, just drop me a PM.
Attachments: UT00bUnblocker.gif (134 KB)


kawisixer01  (C 38984)

May 24, 2012, 8:22 AM
Post #22 of 230 (12029 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Scary shit. Anyone else notice that you catch another clip at the end of what looks like people lining up to exit, the guys drogue is about half way out?


Abedy  (D 10153)

May 24, 2012, 8:37 AM
Post #23 of 230 (11984 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

I second your thoughts. Skydiving isn't for everyone and if someone doesn't want to or changes their mind just keep sitting. It's a sign a politeness to respect such a wish (and to "guard" such a passenger in the hangar.)

I dunno why a TI forcibly drags a student out the door. The vid is a little grainy at that period of time but it seems the TI even sort of looks "amused" about his wildly thrashing and resisting old lady passenger. Maybe - especially in our way-too-often testosteron-driven sport - he was afraid his fellow TIs would make phun of him not to be able to "get that old lady out the door"? I dunno and hope this wasn't his motive.

Old passengers are a challenge, yes. I'm pretty glad I didn't have very fragile old people yet. My eldest passenger so far has been a nice lady aged 75. She was remarkably fit for her age but I told her that we need to take extra care with her and I triple-checked her harness. If she had shown that she had changed her mind I would have remained in the plane with her and I talked about this opportunity with her - as I do with all students(*). We did some more ground training, especially landing and I assisted her a little (lifted her legs with mine a little) but she did fairly well, better than some younger buffalo hips... See pics attached, she enjoyed the ride.

(*) "Whenever you clearly tell me you don't wanna jump and confirm my question if ya really don't wanna do, I will respect your wish - which might take more bravery than actually jump - and stay with you and ride down in the plane with you. The money will be blown, though. That OK with you?"
Attachments: 75-year-old-lady.gif (121 KB)


faller  (D 5182)

May 24, 2012, 8:50 AM
Post #24 of 230 (11945 views)
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Re: [Abedy] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps one of the scariest things I've ever seen. Without having been there, it's hard to say that in fact the passenger was saying no or just resisting/complaining. HOWEVER it is certainly obvious that the harness was not properly fit to the customer and left loose & unadjusted prior to exit. NOT EVEN CLOSE! The extra Y strap would only have made this scenario slightly less scary. The fact that this poor woman survived is nothing short of a miracle. The Instructor made several egregious errors, all painfully obvious on that living nightmare of a video. 1) Equipment fitting & re-checking. 2) Final re-checking of harness just prior to exit. 3) Verifying passenger compliance. 4) Delaying efforts to grab, leg lock or whatever else you might think of. Kudos to the Video guy for making some effort.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

May 24, 2012, 9:01 AM
Post #25 of 230 (11895 views)
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Re: [faller] Tandem jump goes to sh*t... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Perhaps one of the scariest things I've ever seen. Without having been there, it's hard to say that in fact the passenger was saying no or just resisting/complaining. HOWEVER it is certainly obvious that the harness was not properly fit to the customer and left loose & unadjusted prior to exit. NOT EVEN CLOSE! The extra Y strap would only have made this scenario slightly less scary. The fact that this poor woman survived is nothing short of a miracle. The Instructor made several egregious errors, all painfully obvious on that living nightmare of a video. 1) Equipment fitting & re-checking. 2) Final re-checking of harness just prior to exit. 3) Verifying passenger compliance. 4) Delaying efforts to grab, leg lock or whatever else you might think of. Kudos to the Video guy for making some effort.

This whole jump is just FUBAR but she may have not been saying no. I kind of thought it looked like she was having an issue with her legs. It almost seemed as though they kind of got stuck under her. Only her and that TI will know what really happened but one thing is for sure... that exit should have never happened! If I were the vidiot on that jump I would have had a hard time not trying to do something before the exit but he deserves kudos for trying to help in the air. I still cannot believe what I just watched.


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