Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer

 


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 12:15 AM
Post #1 of 18 (1881 views)
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answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer Can't Post

if you adjust your container to be too loose, can that cause lower back pains upon deployment? or did I have a hard opening? As much as I try to and remember what the hell actually happened, I can't.

I had just readjusted my leg straps because my right leg got numb on my AFF5 canopy portion... on my AFF6 after all the adjustments, I jumped, upon deployment I felt my back just curving inwards like a mofo, and I landed with a sore back =/ . At least I passed my AFF's, but I'd like to know if I made a mistake before deployment, maybe too much arching? (if there is such a thing).

Electronic alti or analog?

When should one start looking for a rig? 30? 40? 50 jumps? B-license?

I weight 195 lbs, 6 ft tall. I'm thinking of sticking to 230 for rentals and my first rig, however some people, including instructors, recommended I buy 210 or 190. I'm a little confused because that's slightly below the 1:1 people recommend here... does that rule matter less the heavier you get or something?

Should I get a brand new container? just so that it fits me perfectly?

Hot summer southern california weather is coming up... should I even bother getting a jumpsuit?

If I hold my flare too long, (edit: at high altitudes) the canopy collapses, what are the odds that it doesn't recover from the collapse? are there any videos of that happening?

what kind of beer do you like?


(This post was edited by dontlikemustard on May 7, 2012, 1:13 AM)


fergs  (F 383)

May 7, 2012, 12:50 AM
Post #2 of 18 (1859 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi,

1. You just had an opening hard enough for you to remember it.
2. No
3. Analog for a hundred or two jumps.
3. Now
4.listen to your instructor.
5. Yes, as long as you can still afford jump tickets.
6. Yes
7. Flare at the correct height.
8. Kilkenny or Boddingtons or Guiness.

Cheers, fergs
Wink


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 1:09 AM
Post #3 of 18 (1852 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If I hold my flare too long, the canopy collapses, what are the odds that it doesn't recover from the collapse? are there any videos of that happening?

sorry, I meant at like 4000 feet, not right before landing.


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 1:10 AM
Post #4 of 18 (1851 views)
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Re: [fergs] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi,

1. You just had an opening hard enough for you to remember it.
2. No
3. Analog for a hundred or two jumps.
3. Now
4.listen to your instructor.
5. Yes, as long as you can still afford jump tickets.
6. Yes
7. Flare at the correct height.
8. Kilkenny or Boddingtons or Guiness.

Cheers, fergs
Wink

ty lol


(This post was edited by dontlikemustard on May 7, 2012, 1:11 AM)


Hellis

May 7, 2012, 2:06 AM
Post #5 of 18 (1840 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If I hold my flare too long, the canopy collapses, what are the odds that it doesn't recover from the collapse? are there any videos of that happening?

sorry, I meant at like 4000 feet, not right before landing.

Student gear should not with normal "use" stall.
But if you force it to stall, meaning pulling the steeringtoggles down to your feet or so, the canopy will inflate again once you lift the toggles.

This video shows a stall, and moving past the stall, making the canopy fly backwards (DO NOT DO THIS!).
The canopy used is much more stable in a stall than the average skydiving canopy.
And you see when I lift the toggles, the canopy surges forward, and almost "hits" the horizon.
That means the canopy is flying down, as in vertically down, for a brief moment.
A few seconds later my body swings under the canopy again and we return to normal flight.
The reinflation from stall to "open wing" might be a tad quicker on this canopy compared to a normal skydive canopy, but not that much.
So, short answer, no problem if you do it at 4000 feet.
But below 300 feet, your pushing your luck.
http://youtu.be/1twC8F2ptmU


lookoutbelow  (A 63826)

May 7, 2012, 7:54 AM
Post #6 of 18 (1750 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a newb myself, so take my answers for what they are worth.

I bought my own rig immediately, and I am glad I did. I don't have to worry about someone renting out the rig I would have used. No time wasted hunting down gear, etc. I can show up and jump. Plus you will learn to maintain the gear and inspect it from the start (assuming you weren't taught that already).

With regards to an altimeter, I would get an analog for your wrist and an audible for your helmet. And if you get an audible that also signals altitudes under canopy, it might make learning to judge your landing patterns by eye easier/faster. Before I had my audible I spent too much time glancing at my wrist rather than watching the ground and target. With the audible I spend most of the time learning to eyeball it, with the audible signalling altitude thresholds.

With the hot weather here, I've started wearing jump pants and not my full jump suit. I like that the pants still protect my knees a little, compared to shorts. I haven't rolled any of my recent landings, but... :)


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 7, 2012, 9:41 AM
Post #7 of 18 (1700 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

All good answers so far.

Can I just say "What he said" and get beer if I see you?

I will say you should get your own rig as soon as possible. A: you don't have to pay rental fees. B: If you get one that fits properly, things will generally be more comfortable. C: If you don't feel like packing at the end of the day, you don't have to. Stuff it in a gear bag and get it next time. All the coolest skydivers show up to the dz with an unpacked rig ;)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

May 7, 2012, 9:56 AM
Post #8 of 18 (1688 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

What dz are you jumping at? If you're at Perris, Elsinore or San Diego, go talk to the people at the gear store. They can answer your questions and lay out your options - plus you'll have the advantage of getting to look at and touch what you are asking about.

When to buy? I know that the Square One store in Perris has a fabulous demo/rental program, not sure about their store at Elsinore or Gravity Gear in San Diego. If you decide on new gear and can take advantage of something like that, it's worth it as you will have gear to jump while your custom stuff is being made.

Get a jumpsuit. Unless you think you are going to like doing a lot of solos.


fcajump  (D 15598)

May 7, 2012, 10:01 AM
Post #9 of 18 (1683 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

(edited to add) Answers change when you move to high-performance gear...

In reply to:
if you adjust your container to be too loose, can that cause lower back pains upon deployment?
yes

In reply to:
or did I have a hard opening?
Maybe

In reply to:
maybe too much arching? (if there is such a thing).
There is... but unlikely to be the issue during opening.

In reply to:
Electronic alti or analog?
Personally - kinda one each Alti-III and Alti-track. but to answer the question I think you're asking they both have analog face, don't care for digital numbers,

In reply to:
When should one start looking for a rig?
As soon as you are sure you're going to stay with it.
In reply to:

30?
Was once... long ago

In reply to:
40?
Was that too... but its been a few years, I'm a bit older than that...

In reply to:
50 jumps?
Yep, after about 2 years (~1/2 of that on my own rig), but that was 20 years ago...

In reply to:
B-license?
yea, but I've had my 'D' for long enough that I don't remember the number... its around here somewhere...

In reply to:
I weight 195 lbs, 6 ft tall. I'm thinking of sticking to 230 for rentals and my first rig, however some people, including instructors, recommended I buy 210 or 190. I'm a little confused because that's slightly below the 1:1 people recommend here... does that rule matter less the heavier you get or something?

Ok, now a question near/dear to my heart...
They told me the same thing when I went to buy my own rig. (~220-lbs at the time) Despite the insistance, I bought a new PD-260 9-cell (mind you it was the older F-111 non-ZP fabric) And they were right... after only 10 years and ~600 jumps I started getting bored with it. Now, after 22 years (and gaining a little weight) I've down sized all the way to a 210.

Get what YOU are comfortable with as long as it is no more agressive than what you instructors feel you're ready for.

Yes, if you buy new, there will be a certain amount of investment loss if you sell soon, but for me there was the reassurance that, in a sport where I did not know allot about gear, I knew the history/condition of the gear from day 1.

In reply to:
Should I get a brand new container? just so that it fits me perfectly?
YES.

In reply to:
Hot summer southern california weather is coming up... should I even bother getting a jumpsuit?
Yes. First, it will provide a more consistant flight behaviour as you are learning, and as a new jumper, it will help when you land places you didn't plan to... (got drug down the taxi way ~jump #30 very short before I got it collapsed... found holes in both layers of the cordura knees and my jeans, but not in my skin...)

In reply to:
If I hold my flare too long, (edit: at high altitudes) the canopy collapses, what are the odds that it doesn't recover from the collapse? are there any videos of that happening?

rare, but can happen... mostly if the pilot 'chute gets in front and wraps on the lines.

videos, I'm sure... just don't have links right now.

NOT a reason not to do so (high, clear your airspace, expecially below) just something to keep in mind.

In reply to:
what kind of beer do you like?
Ayinger Altbairisch Dark (cold)


(This post was edited by fcajump on May 7, 2012, 10:02 AM)


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 10:52 AM
Post #10 of 18 (1651 views)
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Re: [Hellis] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
If I hold my flare too long, the canopy collapses, what are the odds that it doesn't recover from the collapse? are there any videos of that happening?

sorry, I meant at like 4000 feet, not right before landing.

Student gear should not with normal "use" stall.
But if you force it to stall, meaning pulling the steeringtoggles down to your feet or so, the canopy will inflate again once you lift the toggles.

This video shows a stall, and moving past the stall, making the canopy fly backwards (DO NOT DO THIS!).
The canopy used is much more stable in a stall than the average skydiving canopy.
And you see when I lift the toggles, the canopy surges forward, and almost "hits" the horizon.
That means the canopy is flying down, as in vertically down, for a brief moment.
A few seconds later my body swings under the canopy again and we return to normal flight.
The reinflation from stall to "open wing" might be a tad quicker on this canopy compared to a normal skydive canopy, but not that much.
So, short answer, no problem if you do it at 4000 feet.
But below 300 feet, your pushing your luck.
http://youtu.be/1twC8F2ptmU

Ya, i was holding the stall and put the toggles back up immediately after I felt the free fall. I can assure you I would not dare to try that below 2k...

If anything my problem with landings right now is flaring too slow/ too late.


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #11 of 18 (1647 views)
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Re: [packerboy] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
All good answers so far.

Can I just say "What he said" and get beer if I see you?

I will say you should get your own rig as soon as possible. A: you don't have to pay rental fees. B: If you get one that fits properly, things will generally be more comfortable. C: If you don't feel like packing at the end of the day, you don't have to. Stuff it in a gear bag and get it next time. All the coolest skydivers show up to the dz with an unpacked rig ;)

haha, ya ull get a beer. I can always rent a rig, leave, unpack it, and walk back in.


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 11:09 AM
Post #12 of 18 (1639 views)
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Re: [skybytch] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What dz are you jumping at? If you're at Perris, Elsinore or San Diego, go talk to the people at the gear store. They can answer your questions and lay out your options - plus you'll have the advantage of getting to look at and touch what you are asking about.

When to buy? I know that the Square One store in Perris has a fabulous demo/rental program, not sure about their store at Elsinore or Gravity Gear in San Diego. If you decide on new gear and can take advantage of something like that, it's worth it as you will have gear to jump while your custom stuff is being made.

Get a jumpsuit. Unless you think you are going to like doing a lot of solos.

I'm actually in Taft, probably gonna try and stick there for a while until I get my A. Not sure about the other DZ's but I feel at home there, everyone is really chill and helpful. I'll definitely make a trip to Perris though, especially if I can try out some gear over there... wasn't aware of that.

My only problem with getting new gear, and jumpsuits is that I'm probably gonna mess up the equipment on landing at least a couple of times, since I am still new...


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 7, 2012, 11:15 AM
Post #13 of 18 (1638 views)
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Re: [fcajump] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(edited to add) Answers change when you move to high-performance gear...

In reply to:
if you adjust your container to be too loose, can that cause lower back pains upon deployment?
yes

In reply to:
or did I have a hard opening?
Maybe

In reply to:
maybe too much arching? (if there is such a thing).
There is... but unlikely to be the issue during opening.

In reply to:
Electronic alti or analog?
Personally - kinda one each Alti-III and Alti-track. but to answer the question I think you're asking they both have analog face, don't care for digital numbers,

In reply to:
When should one start looking for a rig?
As soon as you are sure you're going to stay with it.
In reply to:

30?
Was once... long ago

In reply to:
40?
Was that too... but its been a few years, I'm a bit older than that...

In reply to:
50 jumps?
Yep, after about 2 years (~1/2 of that on my own rig), but that was 20 years ago...

In reply to:
B-license?
yea, but I've had my 'D' for long enough that I don't remember the number... its around here somewhere...

In reply to:
I weight 195 lbs, 6 ft tall. I'm thinking of sticking to 230 for rentals and my first rig, however some people, including instructors, recommended I buy 210 or 190. I'm a little confused because that's slightly below the 1:1 people recommend here... does that rule matter less the heavier you get or something?

Ok, now a question near/dear to my heart...
They told me the same thing when I went to buy my own rig. (~220-lbs at the time) Despite the insistance, I bought a new PD-260 9-cell (mind you it was the older F-111 non-ZP fabric) And they were right... after only 10 years and ~600 jumps I started getting bored with it. Now, after 22 years (and gaining a little weight) I've down sized all the way to a 210.

Get what YOU are comfortable with as long as it is no more agressive than what you instructors feel you're ready for.

Yes, if you buy new, there will be a certain amount of investment loss if you sell soon, but for me there was the reassurance that, in a sport where I did not know allot about gear, I knew the history/condition of the gear from day 1.

In reply to:
Should I get a brand new container? just so that it fits me perfectly?
YES.

In reply to:
Hot summer southern california weather is coming up... should I even bother getting a jumpsuit?
Yes. First, it will provide a more consistant flight behaviour as you are learning, and as a new jumper, it will help when you land places you didn't plan to... (got drug down the taxi way ~jump #30 very short before I got it collapsed... found holes in both layers of the cordura knees and my jeans, but not in my skin...)

In reply to:
If I hold my flare too long, (edit: at high altitudes) the canopy collapses, what are the odds that it doesn't recover from the collapse? are there any videos of that happening?

rare, but can happen... mostly if the pilot 'chute gets in front and wraps on the lines.

videos, I'm sure... just don't have links right now.

NOT a reason not to do so (high, clear your airspace, expecially below) just something to keep in mind.

In reply to:
what kind of beer do you like?
Ayinger Altbairisch Dark (cold)

I think I owe you more than one beer, thanks for the answers, cheers!


fcajump  (D 15598)

May 7, 2012, 11:55 AM
Post #14 of 18 (1620 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

[replyI think I owe you more than one beer, thanks for the answers, cheers!
No problem. Smile
Have one for me.
That's what this forum is all about, but also remember that advice here is worth exactly what you paid for it... the more important the answer is to safety, the more you need to also discuss it with your instructors/riggers.
JW


packerboy  (C 34282)

May 7, 2012, 2:34 PM
Post #15 of 18 (1582 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
All good answers so far.

Can I just say "What he said" and get beer if I see you?

I will say you should get your own rig as soon as possible. A: you don't have to pay rental fees. B: If you get one that fits properly, things will generally be more comfortable. C: If you don't feel like packing at the end of the day, you don't have to. Stuff it in a gear bag and get it next time. All the coolest skydivers show up to the dz with an unpacked rig ;)

haha, ya ull get a beer. I can always rent a rig, leave, unpack it, and walk back in.

True, but you will have to pay for the pack job..


scottd818  (C 41314)

May 10, 2012, 8:40 AM
Post #16 of 18 (1422 views)
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Re: answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

Your not gonna be able to stall the manta 260s at taft. Trust me i have tried really hard. lol. But you can get it to stall with rear risers. but still not easy there is alot of line tension. Look into getting the altitrack thats what i got and absoultly love it. It gives you the look of a analog but has a complete logbook that will tell you everything about you jump. i also just bought a optima 2 audible and it is awesome as well. i reccommend both.
And i like fat tire ill see you in 2 weeks at the boogies and we will have a beer then.
And congrats on kickin some ass on you AFF so far. Who were your jump masters on 4 and 5.


dontlikemustard  (B License)

May 14, 2012, 4:38 PM
Post #17 of 18 (1220 views)
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Re: [scottd818] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Your not gonna be able to stall the manta 260s at taft. Trust me i have tried really hard. lol. But you can get it to stall with rear risers. but still not easy there is alot of line tension. Look into getting the altitrack thats what i got and absoultly love it. It gives you the look of a analog but has a complete logbook that will tell you everything about you jump. i also just bought a optima 2 audible and it is awesome as well. i reccommend both.
And i like fat tire ill see you in 2 weeks at the boogies and we will have a beer then.
And congrats on kickin some ass on you AFF so far. Who were your jump masters on 4 and 5.

I had John and Joey. And thanks for the tips, fat tire it is lol.

My lower back is still busted from that hard opening, but I'm gonna try to make it this weekend and on Memorial day if its open.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

May 15, 2012, 6:48 PM
Post #18 of 18 (1121 views)
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Re: [dontlikemustard] answer my newbie questions.. and if I ever see you, I'll buy you a beer [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Electronic alti or analog?

Analog.

In reply to:
When should one start looking for a rig? 30? 40? 50 jumps? B-license?

As soon as you've down-sized to 1 pound per square foot (a 220 to 230 for you). I had my own rig for lucky jump #13 and at the rental rates charged by the DZ would have broken even financially if I threw it in a dumpster after 70 jumps (instead I made a few more jumps, sold the main and bought a smaller one, made 150 more jumps, and sold the reserve + container with total sales price a few hundred dollars less than I'd paid or $1-$2 a jump).

Used mains and containers each depreciate about $1/jump. Reserves and AADs depreciate based on age. If you do a reasonable job shopping you'll spend a couple dollars a jump on gear regardless of how many times you change it. If you do a good job shopping and making deals you'll make money on the equipment which you can then spend on jump tickets and beer.

Buying something smaller "you'll grow into" because "you'll get bored" is a bad idea since you're not ready for it, more likely to hurt yourself, and won't save any money in the long run even if you don't miss any work due to injury and/or pay insurance deductibles and co-insurance.

In reply to:
I weight 195 lbs, 6 ft tall. I'm thinking of sticking to 230 for rentals and my first rig,

Brian Germain agrees. He as over 14,000 jumps, designs and builds parachutes, and teaches canopy flight professionally around the world.

Here's his chart

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

Add 25 pounds of gear (at least) to 195 pounds and you get an exit weight of 220 pounds. At 20 jumps Brian recommends a 230 at sea level (see the document for the larger sizes required above sea level) and says to never go smaller than a 220. By 100 jumps he recommends a 230 but allows a 198.

At that time you'll have more experience, could sell your 230, and start jumping a 210.

Some countries mandate following a similar chart. While not required here it's a very prudent idea.


In reply to:
however some people, including instructors, recommended I buy 210

Your instructors probably have not watched you make low turns to down-wind landings on concrete off the dropzone on the sunset load and are therefore in no position to make a recommendation. Thats the sort of situation you're sizing the canopy for (not landings facing the wind in the middle of a big grassy field) - the cute chicks flash the pilot for extra altitude, some one in your group gets hypoxic and gets their foot caught on the seatbelt so you take forever to climb out, have a long spot, don't see power lines until late, and make a low 90 degree turn to avoid them. Being able to land cross-wind, up-hill, down-hill, and with post-planeout turns are all important too.

If they have seen that they probably lack the experience to make good recomendations, like 14,000 jumps each and decades in the sport and you're better off ignoring them unless they're telling you to be more conservative than Brian (maybe you have flaring problems or bad knees that suggest more time on a bigger canopy).

In reply to:
or 190.

More wrong but a good third step once you've made 150-200 jumps.

In reply to:
Should I get a brand new container? just so that it fits me perfectly?

You will not get your money back if you down-size and sell it with low jump numbers.

In reply to:
Hot summer southern california weather is coming up... should I even bother getting a jumpsuit?

Yes. Skydiving by yourself is like sex with yourself. While better than nothing it's not what most people would choose. A jumpsuit will give you a neutral fall rate similar to other people so you work less maintaining their fall rate and have plenty of range left to move around.

In reply to:
If I hold my flare too long, (edit: at high altitudes) the canopy collapses, what are the odds that it doesn't recover from the collapse?

Low.

In reply to:
what kind of beer do you like?

Most IPAs. Right now I'm especially fond of the Stone and Racer 5.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on May 15, 2012, 10:36 PM)



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