Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device

 


Poll: A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device
Yes 18 / 53%
No 16 / 47%
34 total votes
 
Nastyn8  (B License)

May 3, 2012, 3:49 PM
Post #1 of 15 (1832 views)
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A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device Can't Post

Would you buy a new type of helmet-mounted glide ratio feedback device that is a little bit bigger than a GoPro, but doesn't rely on GPS, and is capable of accurately measuring glide ratio independent of wind conditions (or direction of flight)?

The device would be mounted on the front of the helmet, approximately where most people mount GoPros.

don't click no because you don't care about getting real-time feedback on your G/R

Thanks!


EDIT: review the forum rules on advertising.


(This post was edited by LouDiamond on May 3, 2012, 5:51 PM)


tunnelfly

May 3, 2012, 10:37 PM
Post #2 of 15 (1758 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

I clicked No because I need that space for the GoPro.Wink

On the other hand, I've also been thinking about adding wind speed measurement to my homemade (dytter sized) glide ratio feedback device. The topic is interresting.


Yorick  (D 108976)

May 3, 2012, 11:43 PM
Post #3 of 15 (1739 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

No because a little bit bigger than a GoPro is to big.
I'm used to the FlySight. And that is smal, compact. And is also a logger. Only glide is not that important for me.


ifell  (C 3591)

May 3, 2012, 11:54 PM
Post #4 of 15 (1734 views)
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Re: [Yorick] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No because a little bit bigger than a GoPro is to big.
I'm used to the FlySight. And that is smal, compact. And is also a logger. Only glide is not that important for me.

Wouldn't change a word!


BenediktDE

May 4, 2012, 1:23 AM
Post #5 of 15 (1701 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not vote since I am not able to say "yes" or "no" - it depends on how the system works and how it is used. I do think there might be a market for that.
Would be curious to know how it should work.


SethInMI  (A 47765)

May 4, 2012, 9:45 AM
Post #6 of 15 (1613 views)
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Re: [BenediktDE] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

I imagine it would be in concept the same data gathering as an aircraft pitot tube, dynamic and static pressure difference gives airspeed, and rate of change of static pressure gives vertical airspeed.

A little math and you have glide ratio.

Obviously a device like this could be a jump logger as well, you could still have nice paralog graphs etc etc.

IF IT FUNCTIONED WELL, it would be a great tool for competition, as it would remove the tailwind/headwind issue.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

May 4, 2012, 2:06 PM
Post #7 of 15 (1552 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Would you buy a new type of helmet-mounted glide ratio feedback device that is a little bit bigger than a GoPro, but doesn't rely on GPS, and is capable of accurately measuring glide ratio independent of wind conditions (or direction of flight)?

The device would be mounted on the front of the helmet, approximately where most people mount GoPros.

don't click no because you don't care about getting real-time feedback on your G/R

Thanks!


EDIT: review the forum rules on advertising.

Sounds like the device is large? I like an experimental app that's on my droid that offers GR, voice commands for altitude, directional commands for when I'm backflying, and offers a flight path for post jump review.
And it fits in my pocket. And doesn't cost a lot of $$


rockhopper

May 12, 2012, 8:25 PM
Post #8 of 15 (1375 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

An accurate airspeed based system would be a massive inmprovement over gps based. Wind correction is no longer needed...

Are you thinking of a pitot like setup in some way?


Butters  (C 37840)

May 13, 2012, 9:10 AM
Post #9 of 15 (1308 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you looked at this thread?


Nastyn8  (B License)

May 13, 2012, 10:48 PM
Post #10 of 15 (1242 views)
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Re: [Butters] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, no I hadn't.

My version would be smaller than that, but I didn't realize that anyone had already built a pitot-tube based system. Kudos to him!


rockhopper

May 17, 2012, 4:08 AM
Post #11 of 15 (1164 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

The one that Yuri had built in the post above suffered from issues with airflow being disrupted - too close to the body and flutter of the triangular shaped weather vane part.

How were you thinking of sampling airflow to overcome this?


Nastyn8  (B License)

May 24, 2012, 8:58 AM
Post #12 of 15 (1037 views)
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Re: [rockhopper] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

My device would be mounted as "upstream" as possible (like the forehead area of a helmet) to minimize boundary layer influences.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 24, 2012, 9:12 AM
Post #13 of 15 (1030 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

Someday, I may get big into wingsuiting, and if I did, I'd like one that has a visual pulsing of descent rate.

So it ideally should have a LED output. Slow pulsing means slow descent, while fast pulsing means fast descent. I'm deaf, so I don't benefit from audible feedback devices.

(dreaming: bicolor or tricolor LED, so color would also change based on glide speed. Green for slowest, yellow for medium speed, red for fastest, and all blends of colors in between. But I imagine the market is too small/unprofitable for a fancier solution such as this, unless it was an iPhone accessory LED with an iPhone app that measured from cross-referenced/smoothed-out combined GPS/gyro/accelerometer data, that auto-compensate for some GPS inaccuracy)


Nastyn8  (B License)

May 25, 2012, 4:26 PM
Post #14 of 15 (986 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

A little LCD screen would probably be a nice visual option since they can be had for less than $20. I considered this as the interface for the pilot, but I'm extremely wary of the inherent distraction from altitude awareness that visual outputs would introduce.

The GPS / accelerometer combination idea is very interesting, and it's funny that you mention that because a variation of the idea also popped into my head this morning before I looked at your post. The vertical speed measurement via GPS should be reasonably accurate, while being independent of wind conditions.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 26, 2012, 2:51 AM
Post #15 of 15 (962 views)
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Re: [Nastyn8] A New Glide Ratio Feedback Device [In reply to] Can't Post

About LED:
Not an LCD screen, but a single flashing LED.

I already use an LED with my LED Optima audible from Larsen & Brusgard (the makers of the Altitrack, Protrack, Optima, etc). You could even use the same connector, so you wouldn't even need to manufacture the LED cable -- just tell them to buy a Larsen & Brusgard LED, and it'd attach to your device.

You can get a lot of feedback through just a LED. Just flash the light for every, say, 100 feet of descent. (Or even 50 feet of descent). If I'm diving, the pulsing will be very fast. If I'm flying very slow, it will pulse very slow.

It's like using sound for glide ratio for paragliders, where the clicks go faster if you altitude is changing faster (ascend/descend), but using light flashing instead...

You don't get the color feedback of using a bicolor LED, but if you went that approach, I'd probably want the color to change with glide speed, and the flashing to change with vertical descent rate.

________________

About the iPhone app idea (basically iPhone in pocket while wearing head phones to listen to feedback)

GPS speedometers are very, very, very accurate for average speed, but become much more inaccurate for instantaneous speed. Therefore, GPS is better for speed 'that happened a few seconds ago' than for 'speed that happened less than half a second ago'. This becomes a problem for real-time feedback devices.

The addition of accelerometer/gyroscope in many smartphones adds 'dead-reckoning' capabilities that can also enhance the real-time accuracy of real-time GPS speed measurements. Outlier data can quickly be ignored (i.e. spurious GPS position changes that don't have surges in accelerometer/gyro).

This greatly enhances short-term (aka real-time) precision that can be verified by long-term precision. (log the gps/accel/gyro data, and compare the short-term gyro/accel adjusted GPS calculations with longer-term precise GPS calculations, or compare data to an external higher-precision GPS logger)

A proper app programmer, with the right knowledge in mathematics, will know how to properly combine dead-reckoning data with GPS data, to enhance instantaneous GPS accuracy. This will be good for real-time feedback apps.


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 26, 2012, 2:55 AM)



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