Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Jav or Vector

 

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daleskydive  (E License)

Apr 23, 2012, 1:04 AM
Post #1 of 40 (2427 views)
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Jav or Vector Can't Post

Has anyone had both a custom made Jav and Vector made for them that can comment on how the two compared in fit and comfort.I need a new container and like the look of the V3 micron BUT my custom Jav is vastly superior in comfort to any V3 that I have tried on. Yes, I realise that the Jav was made for me and none of the Microns were. Its just the difference in comfort was so great and I dont want to spend $3000 on a container that does'nt cut the mustard in the comfort and fit depatment.


(This post was edited by daleskydive on Apr 23, 2012, 1:11 AM)


piisfish

Apr 23, 2012, 1:28 AM
Post #2 of 40 (2403 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

from the rigs I have seen, specially the overstuffed small V3's seem to loose some of the comfort. I call it a Brick Fit.
It might be different if the sizes of the canopies are more on the loose side.
Now if you want COMFORTABLE, check the new Voodoo Curve from Rigging Innovations Smile It is a very innovative product with great evolutions on the harness fit, and a couple of very nice small details


fendor1369  (B 35855)

Apr 23, 2012, 1:57 AM
Post #3 of 40 (2385 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

I am a JAV man myself, my rig is a JAV all 15 of my work rigs are JAVs. I have jumped others, Mirage, Infinity, Vector, I even have a Talon container sitting in my closet but I have to say I have yet to find anything as comfortable as a JAV.


daleskydive  (E License)

Apr 23, 2012, 2:19 AM
Post #4 of 40 (2367 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

So you have tried their rig on?


piisfish

Apr 23, 2012, 2:20 AM
Post #5 of 40 (2364 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't jump it, but tried it on at Skydive Expo. And EVERYBODY had the same remarks Smile Sandy can be proud of his baby


tsalnukt

Apr 23, 2012, 6:12 AM
Post #6 of 40 (2259 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

All of the Javs I have jumped are far more comfortable than the vectors I have jumped. Vector feel like a brick on your back. The placement of the main closing loop inside the container puts a natural curve in the back pad that fits my back better and the yoke seems to have a more natural curve to it so it rides my shoulders better. The backpad on the vectors seems really flat to me and the yoke comes off the backpad at almost a 90 degree angle and doesn't ride on the shoulders as nice as the javelin.

What does it for me for the javelin is the placement of the main closing loop as I mentioned before and more importantly the placement of the AAD cutter, underneath the pack job on top of the floor plate. If you had an AAD that on partially cut the loop you would still be able to deploy the reserve.

Just me 2 cents. Take it as you like.


Squeak  (E 1313)

Apr 23, 2012, 6:25 AM
Post #7 of 40 (2246 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So you have tried their rig on?

Dale try a couple on at the DZ, see which you like best.
I have a V3 love it, Had a Jav , loved it less.


skydiverek  (C 952)

Apr 23, 2012, 6:43 AM
Post #8 of 40 (2226 views)
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Re: [tsalnukt] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The placement of the main closing loop inside the container puts a natural curve in the back pad that fits my back better and the yoke seems to have a more natural curve to it so it rides my shoulders better.

It also promotes entanglements with the suspention lines, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VtzmtA_C0

In reply to:
placement of the AAD cutter, underneath the pack job on top of the floor plate. If you had an AAD that on partially cut the loop you would still be able to deploy the reserve.

Such a placement leaves the longest 'tail' of the cut loop, ending up with this (added poor rigging and no silicone on the loop):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYIUjKGxagI

http://www.dropzone.com/..._latest_reply;so=ASC


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Apr 23, 2012, 6:43 AM)


Premier skymama  (D 26699)
Moderator
Apr 23, 2012, 6:48 AM
Post #9 of 40 (2217 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Now if you want COMFORTABLE, check the new Voodoo Curve from Rigging Innovations

I agree. I tried it on at the Expo also and was very impressed with how comfortable it felt.


tsalnukt

Apr 23, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #10 of 40 (2178 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes there was a couple of issues with the main closing loop and poor grommet setting with completely exposed grommets, but not just on javelins. This issue has been resolved for sometime now and I would like to see how the updated closing loop retainer could snag on anything these days.

your second point.........Poor rigging, poor rigging, poor rigging. and as has been proven poor rigging on any rig can fuck up even the best of reserve systems. This video is of a vector with the cutter on the first flap on top of the actual reserve. NOT with the cutter on the floor plate
The recommended closing loop length on a javelin is 2 1/4 inches. If the recommendations of the manufacturer are followed with regard to reserve packing then this should not even be an issue.


normiss  (D 28356)

Apr 23, 2012, 7:39 AM
Post #11 of 40 (2177 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

Jav is much more comfy IMO.

I HATE the sewn together d-bag pilot chute though.
Doubles your cost of maintaining the pilot chute.
Mad
unless you modify it anyway....Wink


skydiverek  (C 952)

Apr 23, 2012, 8:00 AM
Post #12 of 40 (2152 views)
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Re: [tsalnukt] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yes there was a couple of issues with the main closing loop and poor grommet setting with completely exposed grommets, but not just on javelins. This issue has been resolved for sometime now and I would like to see how the updated closing loop retainer could snag on anything these days.

I was not talking about the badly seated grommet. Rather, abot the 'detachable' - a material 'tounge' sticking out from the wall (between main and a reserve container). Like on Javelin. Closing loop originates from that 'tounge'. A line can halfhitch around that tounge (this is what happened in the first movie I linked).
I do not understand why the main closing loop originates from the 'tounge', and not directly from the wall.


In reply to:
your second point.........Poor rigging, poor rigging, poor rigging. and as has been proven poor rigging on any rig can fuck up even the best of reserve systems. This video is of a vector with the cutter on the first flap on top of the actual reserve. NOT with the cutter on the floor plate

Exactly. So the cut 'tail' on Javelin is even longer than on Vector!




(This post was edited by skydiverek on Apr 23, 2012, 8:01 AM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Apr 23, 2012, 8:15 AM
Post #13 of 40 (2133 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped both of those brands. Here's my favorite. Smile

http://www.viewpoint.com/...inity&sub=design


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Apr 23, 2012, 9:18 AM
Post #14 of 40 (2093 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

Add my vote for the Curv.
Just got one, exceptionally loving it.
Have owned Jav, Mirage, Stunts, and other RI products.
Currently own 6 rigs, the Curv is unquestionably the most sweetness I've ever thought of.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Apr 23, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #15 of 40 (2088 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
glements with the suspention lines, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45VtzmtA_C0

That was the famous non-fatal main-reserve entanglement in New Zealand by Mike Holmes in 2006, which was on a Teardrop rig, lines catching around the main closing loop anchor tab. But yes, the tab is similar to that on a Javelin. (Wings & Racer also anchor the main loop from inside the pack tray, but leave only the loop itself "hanging out.")

If we're talking about snags: On the Jav, I also don't like how soft the main side flaps are, relative to the neighboring hard plastic in the ends of the flaps. A poorer combination for snagging lines. But it is admittedly a very rare event.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Apr 23, 2012, 9:25 AM
Post #16 of 40 (2088 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've jumped both of those brands. Here's my favorite. Smile

http://www.viewpoint.com/...inity&sub=design

(Just my choice, but I'm not going to bother with another browser plug in just to view the material.)


kuai43  (C License)

Apr 23, 2012, 9:43 AM
Post #17 of 40 (2071 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I was not talking about the badly seated grommet. Rather, abot the 'detachable' - a material 'tounge' sticking out from the wall (between main and a reserve container). Like on Javelin. Closing loop originates from that 'tounge'. A line can halfhitch around that tounge (this is what happened in the first movie I linked).

Excess suspension lines are the only thing that can half-hitch the 'tongue'. Stowing lines on the d-bag to keep excess minimal and having the excess s-folded to the bottom of the container will keep them away from the 'tongue'. After stowing the d-bag in the container, one of my packing checks is pulling the d-bag down away from the reserve wall while pulling up on the closing loop (& tongue) and taking a visual of the tongue to be certain no lines are near it.


In reply to:
I do not understand why the main closing loop originates from the 'tounge', and not directly from the wall.

Not a rigger, but I would guess to facilitate changing the loop.


skydiverek  (C 952)

Apr 23, 2012, 11:01 AM
Post #18 of 40 (2036 views)
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Re: [pchapman] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If we're talking about snags: On the Jav, I also don't like how soft the main side flaps are, relative to the neighboring hard plastic in the ends of the flaps. A poorer combination for snagging lines. But it is admittedly a very rare event.

Yup, I have heard only about two such entanglements, both on Javelins. One fatal...


Hellis

Apr 23, 2012, 12:10 PM
Post #19 of 40 (2009 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
your second point.........Poor rigging, poor rigging, poor rigging. and as has been proven poor rigging on any rig can fuck up even the best of reserve systems. This video is of a vector with the cutter on the first flap on top of the actual reserve. NOT with the cutter on the floor plate

Exactly. So the cut 'tail' on Javelin is even longer than on Vector!


But to be fair, on Javelins you have less flaps to push.
The PC on a Javelin only have two flaps, not four as on the rig on the video.
Right?


adventurechick  (C 35899)

Apr 23, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #20 of 40 (2002 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

Infinity! :-)


skydiverek  (C 952)

Apr 23, 2012, 1:33 PM
Post #21 of 40 (1942 views)
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Re: [Hellis] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But to be fair, on Javelins you have less flaps to push.
The PC on a Javelin only have two flaps, not four as on the rig on the video.
Right?

Number of flaps (to be pushed by reserve PC) has nothing to do with that phenomenon. Rather groomets (creating friction on the loop). Riggers: how many grommets does the cut loop 'tail' have to clear on a) Javelin b) Vector ?


(This post was edited by skydiverek on Apr 23, 2012, 1:36 PM)


piisfish

Apr 23, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #22 of 40 (1927 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

From memory 6 grommets each, unless there is a skyhook then 7. But I could be wrong.


skydiverek  (C 952)

Apr 23, 2012, 2:01 PM
Post #23 of 40 (1923 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, Vector3 reserve PC is 45 lbs strong. Javelin's is 22 lbs.


Deyan  (D 322)

Apr 23, 2012, 2:26 PM
Post #24 of 40 (1905 views)
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Re: [tsalnukt] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
All of the Javs I have jumped are far more comfortable than the vectors I have jumped. Vector feel like a brick on your back. The placement of the main closing loop inside the container puts a natural curve in the back pad that fits my back better and the yoke seems to have a more natural curve to it so it rides my shoulders better. The backpad on the vectors seems really flat to me and the yoke comes off the backpad at almost a 90 degree angle and doesn't ride on the shoulders as nice as the javelin.

My experience with Vectors is exactly like yours. I always think about them as a plank with a harness, but just to be fair, the location of the main closing loop on the new Vectors is inside the main container as well.


dan43  (E License)

Apr 23, 2012, 2:45 PM
Post #25 of 40 (1889 views)
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Re: [daleskydive] Jav or Vector [In reply to] Can't Post

Consider the Icon as well, just bought a new I3, very comfortable rig.
Have previously owned Australian made Talon's and two Jav's. The Icon is by far the best yet..


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