Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
malfunctions video

 


mobbik

Mar 28, 2012, 11:07 AM
Post #1 of 19 (2946 views)
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malfunctions video Can't Post

didnt know that some of them exist... like pilot chute over the nose or closed cells....
what do you do with pilot chute over the canopy? why would it happen?

https://vimeo.com/39304689


Arvoitus  (D 3917)

Mar 28, 2012, 11:30 AM
Post #2 of 19 (2911 views)
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Pilot chute over the nose is fairly common with student canopies using spring loaded PC's. I see them ~2-5 per season. Usually you don't really need to do much, just test if the canopy flies normally and is controllable and flarable. Most of the time when it happens to students they don't notice themselves at all and don't realize it until you ask them about it.


GLIDEANGLE  (D 30292)

Mar 28, 2012, 1:19 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if stall drills could cause this.


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 28, 2012, 2:09 PM
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Yeah, heavy spring loaded PC's at the few DZ's with such PC's do fall in front of the canopy sometimes. Note that since they are spring loaded, they don't collapse so have some real drag. Worst I've seen is one dragging straight back under the center cell. That distorted the nose somewhat, but no problem for landing on a big student canopy. Sometimes happens more to very light jumpers, where I think the canopy doesn't shoot off horizontally as quickly at the end of opening, and so there's more chance for the heavy PC to drop down and happen to fall forward of the canopy.

Also seen it on tandems. Big somewhat heavy drogue at the end of a long bridle. Also can fall over the front. Landed one once and seen others a couple times; no problem since the drogue is collapsed, even when it sat out near the wing tip. At least, that's what I've seen.


SkyChimp  (C 37195)

Apr 1, 2012, 9:22 AM
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That's a great video for any level of experience to watch. I wish the clarity was better but we didn't have HD back then. It's always good to review malfunctions from time to time. "Out of sight, out of mind" can be a disaster if we aren't careful. Every time I pull, I always tell myself "This is a malfunction until it proves otherwise".


Skyper

Apr 1, 2012, 1:18 PM
Post #6 of 19 (2453 views)
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i had this one on my student jump once. PC was not spring loaded. The canopy was about 220 sqft large and Im quite light-weighted.
I was reading about this mal before and I could recall everything I knew during that jump. Than I did a usual controllability check and everything went fine and I landed the thing. What I've also heard is when this happens to smaller canopies it can significantly influence the controllability of the canopy and cut-away is the best, and most probably the only option.


shropshire  (C License)

Apr 1, 2012, 1:47 PM
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Slow down to the point of flying backwards 'could' cause the Pilotchute to fly in front of the canopy


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Apr 1, 2012, 4:34 PM
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I have personally seen 2 cutaways because of the PC falling over the nose of the canopy. Both were on modern sport rigs with BOCs. In both cases the PC entangled some cascades/lines and distorted the shape of the canopy.


mobbik

Apr 1, 2012, 5:37 PM
Post #9 of 19 (2387 views)
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lets say you open high and have the pc over the canopy but it looks like its not affecting control of your canopy in any way, so you fly it... is it possible that the pc will move, get some drag and start causing problems when your too low to deal with it.... i know...anything is possible.

it would be a scary flight for sure.


sundevil777  (D License)

Apr 1, 2012, 8:14 PM
Post #10 of 19 (2360 views)
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Re: [mobbik] malfunctions video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
lets say you open high and have the pc over the canopy but it looks like its not affecting control of your canopy in any way, so you fly it... is it possible that the pc will move, get some drag and start causing problems when your too low to deal with it.... i know...anything is possible.

it would be a scary flight for sure.

If you're flying a moderately loaded canopy, then it should be not problem to fly it in partial to deep brakes so that the PC drag is reduced. The need to do such an accuracy type approach may be required on any off landing.


shropshire  (C License)

Apr 1, 2012, 11:00 PM
Post #11 of 19 (2337 views)
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Presumably the PC will have collapsed... not 'quite' so much drag then, I'd guess.


Skyper

Apr 2, 2012, 12:39 AM
Post #12 of 19 (2327 views)
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In reply to:
Presumably the PC will have collapsed... not 'quite' so much drag then, I'd guess.

Shropshire, PC does not nessecerely colapse, if it's not a retractable pc there could be enough wind speed to create a drag. In my case, PC was fully loaded and had enough drag to create a V-shape in the middle of the nose of a canopy.


(This post was edited by Skyper on Apr 2, 2012, 12:40 AM)


mobbik

Apr 2, 2012, 5:20 AM
Post #13 of 19 (2280 views)
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it looks like pc over the canopy was the mal. :(
http://www.dropzone.com/...2;page=unread#unread


(This post was edited by mobbik on Apr 2, 2012, 5:34 AM)


wetrock

Apr 14, 2012, 3:42 PM
Post #14 of 19 (1963 views)
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the origanal training video was done by Scot Cox. i wonder if there is a better better quality version out there ?


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Apr 17, 2012, 10:26 AM
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this was addressed in the fjc at my dz. the remedy is a brake pump which usually fixes the issue. i have seen a cutaway by a student because of it though. might as well get rid of it while youre not paying for the repack Cool


ksaylor1  (D 23902)

Apr 18, 2012, 6:19 AM
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Jumping in the military with spring loaded pilot chutes, we generally attribute a pc over the nose to backsliding through pull. I've seen a lot of backsliding, and I've seen a lot of pc's over the nose. I'll stipulate that there are other causes, but personally, I think there's a correlation there. One man's opinion.

Ken


potatoman  (Student)

Apr 19, 2012, 3:49 AM
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I put my PC over the nose the other day. 150, WL1.4, and no, I jump a non-collapsable_pc. I was playing around on top, doing complete stalls, and it jumped over, through cell 6. Control check, did some turns etc, but realised on picking up speed, more drag, more distortion. So, 1/4brakes all the way down, and landed that way with minor turns. I pay for my reserve repack, and had enough control.

No issues landing though.


sundevil777  (D License)

Apr 19, 2012, 6:33 PM
Post #18 of 19 (1565 views)
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In reply to:
I put my PC over the nose the other day. 150, WL1.4, and no, I jump a non-collapsable_pc. I was playing around on top, doing complete stalls, and it jumped over, through cell 6. Control check, did some turns etc, but realised on picking up speed, more drag, more distortion. So, 1/4brakes all the way down, and landed that way with minor turns. I pay for my reserve repack, and had enough control.

No issues landing though.

Are you saying you didn't flare at the end?


potatoman  (Student)

Apr 20, 2012, 12:04 AM
Post #19 of 19 (1531 views)
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Did flare, from the 1/4brake into a flare.



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