Apr 12, 2012, 6:59 AM
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"Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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Ok... I learned in a true, kill your groin, bruise your thigh, handing harness (just like in Fandango) and despite the discomfort, I think it adds considerably to the learning experience.
BUT I also see an advantage to the "leaning" harness, including the notion that they can be used by anyone at anytime without assistance...
So, whaddya think??
JW
And, yes... I know... I forgot some option that somebody wants included...
Apr 12, 2012, 8:52 AM
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Re: [fcajump] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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The important question is NOT what people's opinion is! The important question is if both have acceptable OUTCOMES.
At my home DZ we use the leaning harness for 99% of initial and re-currency EP training. Our students and graduates effectively execute their EPs when necessary in the air without difficulty.
Perhaps one reason for this success is that the leaning harnesses are so easy to use that our students drill EPs many, many, many times (almost every ground briefing in AFF, PLUS several times between AFF and A-License.) If doing several AFF jumps in one day, EPs are drilled once in the morning rather than before EVERY jump.
What OUTCOME do you believe that the hanging harness adds to the training process? In other words.... what can the student trained in the hanging harness do that the student trained in a leaning harness cannot?
(This post was edited by GLIDEANGLE on Apr 12, 2012, 8:54 AM)
Apr 12, 2012, 9:46 AM
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Re: [GLIDEANGLE] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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What OUTCOME do you believe that the hanging harness adds to the training process?
For me - the experience of being in a real harness, pulling a real handle against a real force that produced a real result (releasing the 3-ring and dropping a few inchest 'til the reserve risers took over) and having the harness shift from the change and then pulling a real reserve handle (with fake resistance) was much more informative to me as the student than I imagine a leaning harness would have been.
Do I know that my reserve pull ~25 jumps later would have been better/worse if I had only been trained on a leaning harness? Nope.
But my confidence level (shaky at best) for that first dive was, I believe, a little better for a much practice as possible with real gear.
I was the guy you saw always going to the plane with gear on to walk throught the exit when it was shut down (with instructor approval) to get more comfortable with what I was doing...
I know you sky-gods don't need realizm in your training, but us chicken-sh!ts need all we can get...
BUT I also agree 100% that the leaning harness gives easy access to practice many times even without an instructor. And that helps a lot too...
Apr 12, 2012, 9:56 AM
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Re: [iowa] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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Could you please explain what a leaning harness is?
Never heard of it. I have an image in my head, but...
(hopefully someone has a picture for us...) Roughly spaaking it is a pair of webbing strung from the ceiling to floor, with a cross strap at about chest height. When you stand behind and lean into these straps, they simulate the main lift webs and chest strap for a rig. The vertical straps have cut-away and reserve handles in the corresponding locations. These handles may (or may not) be connected to weighted lines to simulate resistance.
To augment this arrangement, some DZ's also have a belt that the student can wear with a simulated "bottom of container" with an old pilot-chute in a pouch for them to deploy.
Not sure if that helps, but as I say, hopefully someone has a picture to replace my 1000 words...
Apr 12, 2012, 10:12 AM
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Re: [fcajump] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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I did my initial training in a leaning harness and as previouly stated, many, many times did we practice. But the first time I got to get in a hanging harness, I was pleased to have the chance to find out what the feel of pulling the cable with weight in it was like. I feel both have a place.
Apr 12, 2012, 9:48 PM
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Re: [dthames] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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The COOLEST simulation was the ParaSim set up with VR goggles, full motion simulated frame etc. ( http://www.parasim.com/#)
Whenever I have to train without a hanging harness, I inevitably get questions from FJS about where the toggles are, can they reach them, etc. Also, where else can a student practice kicking out of line twists? HHs also let you see how aggressive the student will be on the toggles, how much they flare, etc.
Apr 14, 2012, 6:14 AM
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Re: [skyguyscott] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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Our leaning harnesses have toggles attached to weights via pulleys. Our students practice steer-ability checks, turns, & flare stroke with these toggles which give a fairly reasonable simulation of the amount of resistance the toggles will offer.
Apr 14, 2012, 2:09 PM
Post #10 of 12
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Re: [fcajump] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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Hanging harnesses are more realistic. Leaning harnesses are faster for a conga line of recurrencies on Safety Days. Boobies hang better from a leaning harness.
Apr 15, 2012, 2:36 AM
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Re: [PiLFy] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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One thing I think a hanging harness can do is really make it clear to students just how important the chest strap is. Yes that's completely obvious to anyone with more than one jump...
I know that info was put out in my SL course but apparently it isn't being briefed in all student courses.
Apr 25, 2012, 9:45 AM
Post #12 of 12
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Re: [fcajump] "Hanging" harness initial/recurrent training
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Another set of things you find with a first jump student in a hanging (real) harness...
In a real jumpsuit, with alt, goggles, helmet, etc...
Can you see the Alt (or are the goggles causing problems with your glasses)? Can you see the handle (or are your man-boobs in the way)? What does a correctly fitted harness feel like (and why you shouldn't get on a plane until it does). Why guys really don't want to cross their leg straps... Can you see the toggles... no... on the BACK risers...
A leaning harness misses all these things that experienced jumpers don't even think about not knowing... (and telling a student is nothing like having then feel/see it for themselves.)
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