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SAVE THE POND

 

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adamqbishop  (D 31570)

Apr 5, 2012, 2:08 PM
Post #1 of 77 (3951 views)
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SAVE THE POND Can't Post

Fron Danny James Koon

SAVE THE POND
SAVE THE POND!!!!
This just in...
They are planning on filling in the swoop pond with dirt at Elsinore.
We have to stop this from happening***
Any suggestions?? with Lelo Mras and 5 othe

What Can We Do?


obelixtim  (D 84)

Apr 5, 2012, 2:10 PM
Post #2 of 77 (3929 views)
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Re: [adamqbishop] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
What Can We Do?

Upsize?.




Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 5, 2012, 2:30 PM
Post #4 of 77 (3891 views)
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Re: [adamqbishop] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

>What Can We Do?

Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability.


TheBachelor  (D 22560)

Apr 5, 2012, 2:44 PM
Post #5 of 77 (3862 views)
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Re: [billvon] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>What Can We Do?

Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability.

Well said.


DaVinciflies

Apr 5, 2012, 4:20 PM
Post #6 of 77 (3790 views)
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Re: [billvon] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>What Can We Do?

Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability.

Do we know that this is due to liability issues as opposed to, say, upkeep costs or water availability?


cocheese  (D 24000)

Apr 5, 2012, 4:37 PM
Post #7 of 77 (3767 views)
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Re: [adamqbishop] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

Swoop the lake.


diablopilot  (D License)

Apr 5, 2012, 7:01 PM
Post #8 of 77 (3685 views)
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Re: [billvon] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>What Can We Do?

Stop the deaths and injuries from swooping. That will go a long way towards convincing DZO's that the pond isn't a liability.


^this.




jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 6, 2012, 8:00 AM
Post #10 of 77 (3502 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

hmmm...guess that will take Elsinore out of the "where can we hold swoop comps in SoCal" discussion.

Sad to hear.


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 6, 2012, 8:09 AM
Post #11 of 77 (3485 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

It won't be long until swoop comps (at least on the West Coast) will have to be done on private property away from standard dropzones.

Swooping has such potential for the sport. Need to find someone willing to embrace that.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Apr 6, 2012, 8:24 AM
Post #12 of 77 (3466 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Swooping has such potential for the sport.

In what ways, because I don't see them. Don't get me wrong, swooping is fun and among skydiver, cool as hell, but as far as the 'good of the sport', I'm not sure how swooping fits in.

It's probably done more harm than good. Swooping pushed the performance limits of canopies to where they are now, and the trickle down effect is that newer jumpers are looking at smaller and smaller wings as just being 'moderate' as opposed to HP. When three guys on the load are jumping canopies under 80 sq ft, it's hard to convince a new jumper that a 150 or a 135 is a HP canopy.

Swooping has also raised what people think of as HP landings. When swoopers are regularly pulling 270s, 450s, or more, and pushing 60 or 70 mph, new jumpers don't see double fronts or 90s as a 'big deal'.

I'll be the first to admit that if these levels of performance had been properly handled from day one, we wouldn't have these problems, but the fact is that we do. What's the incentive for a DZO to spend the money to build or maintain a pond, when it's nothing but a magnet for swoopers (or wanna-be swoopers)?

How about the double femur in Zhills earlier this week? Don't you think TKs life would have been easier without the drama, ambulances and reporters? I wonder what he's going to think when the ground keeper tells him the pond needs some costly maintenance? Spend the money, or save the aggrevation?


Premier likestojump  (D License)

Apr 6, 2012, 8:25 AM
Post #13 of 77 (3464 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Swooping has such potential for the sport.

Care to elaborate ?


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 6, 2012, 8:37 AM
Post #14 of 77 (3443 views)
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Re: [likestojump] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Swooping has such potential for the sport.

Care to elaborate ?

Because of its visible nature, there would appear to be a way to harness that spectator appeal for competitions.

I get that it has limited marketability, because a six year old can't just go grab a rig and swoop a pond...but the visibility is there. Unfortunately, for a DZO running a business outside of swooping, there is very little if any return for them.

Maybe I should say that swooping doesn't have potential for the sport of skydiving. Swooping has potential for swooping community. Maybe sometime in the not so distant future, swooping will have its own swoopjumper.com site and we'll get cast aside. Unfortunately, up until this year, people were not dieing during competitions...it was folks swooping during normal skydives. Only a complete ban of swooping ( a la Perris) will keep that from happening.


(This post was edited by jacketsdb23 on Apr 6, 2012, 8:39 AM)


robinheid  (D 5533)

Apr 6, 2012, 8:41 AM
Post #15 of 77 (3434 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
hmmm...guess that will take Elsinore out of the "where can we hold swoop comps in SoCal" discussion.

Sad to hear.

AFAIK, the Perris pond is history too.

As one young gun there said to me Wednesday, "swooping is a dying sport, in more ways than one."

Or to update what Skratch Garrison said a few decades ago after a dozen people bounced in two years at the Gulch, mostly from sub-1000-foot deployment altitudes:

"Pulling low Swooping is a rush; it's just not practical."

44
Cool


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 6, 2012, 8:54 AM
Post #16 of 77 (3410 views)
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Re: [robinheid] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

I get why people compare low pulls and swooping, but I don't think they are even close when you compare the mechanisms involved.

Swooping is not conservative, its not safe, and if you fuck up you can die. There is a proper progression, a proper way to do it, ways to minimize the calculated risks involved.

Throwing a pilot chute into 120mph, low, leaves a lot to chance. I just don't see the correlation on that level. Swooping gets a bad rap...but unless DZ's start banning swooping completely ( and it sounds like some large DZ's are well on their way) the canopy related landing accidents will continue.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Apr 6, 2012, 9:13 AM
Post #17 of 77 (3380 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

>>>Swooping is not conservative, its not safe, and if you fuck up you can die. There is a proper progression, a proper way to do it, ways to minimize the calculated risks involved.<<<

Would you agree that swooping is similar to putting on a camera or flying in a wingsuit; very few of the "instant gratification" culture follow that line of proper progression?

I'd hate to see the pond go, it's a great gathering place.


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 6, 2012, 9:43 AM
Post #18 of 77 (3357 views)
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Re: [DSE] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

agreed.

So is this a definite plan or just being discussed? anyone know? Will swooping be banned similar to Perris?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Apr 6, 2012, 9:45 AM
Post #19 of 77 (3354 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

>Swooping has such potential for the sport.

Yep. We'll see if swoopers are willing to do what it takes to save it.


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Apr 6, 2012, 10:09 AM
Post #20 of 77 (3328 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Throwing a pilot chute into 120mph, low, leaves a lot to chance. I just don't see the correlation on that level.
Depends on the gear you use. BASE jumpers do it all the time. And the gear that people used in the 60's opened a whole lot more consistently, with many malfunctions being either landable, or at least ones that you could hand-deploy a reserve into.

Wendy P.


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 6, 2012, 10:15 AM
Post #21 of 77 (3315 views)
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Re: [robinheid] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

AFAIK, the Perris pond is history too.

Has the Perris pond been filled in?


obelixtim  (D 84)

Apr 6, 2012, 11:01 AM
Post #22 of 77 (3279 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Swooping has such potential for undertakers.

FIXED!.


(This post was edited by obelixtim on Apr 6, 2012, 11:02 AM)


jacketsdb23  (D 29802)

Apr 6, 2012, 11:08 AM
Post #23 of 77 (3261 views)
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Re: [obelixtim] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Skydiving has such potential for undertakers.

FIXED!.

There. We can play this game all day.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Apr 6, 2012, 11:13 AM
Post #24 of 77 (3246 views)
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Re: [jacketsdb23] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
There. We can play this game all day.

You think its a game?.

There's not a lot of fun to be had picking up smashed people.

Its time to listen to the wake up call, and take the problem seriously.

The only sportsmen taking divots out of the ground should be golfers.


deltron80  (A License)

Apr 6, 2012, 11:17 AM
Post #25 of 77 (3240 views)
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Re: [cocheese] SAVE THE POND [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Swoop the lake.

It's common knowledge that Lake Elsinore is filled with brain eating amoebas. I wouldn't recommend that.


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