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Positioning for "final" in a crunch

 


dthames  (B 37674)

Apr 2, 2012, 3:59 PM
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Positioning for "final" in a crunch Can't Post

Saturday I was doing some training on braked turns and a braked approach. In debrief I was encouraged not to turn my back to the wind if I was low, as turning back into the wind might cease to be an option. Understood.

The exercise was simulate landing off in a restricted clear space.

The conversation continued. S-turns or Holding Crab was suggest as the best way to bleed off altitude if it was needed. Understood, as well.

I plan to repeat the exercise as soon as it can be arranged. But looking at the other possible situations, I came up with one I want to explore. Suppose there is only a mild breeze. You are slightly downwind of the target (small landing area) and too high. Not only do you need to bleed off altitude you need to get downwind a bit more.

Here is my question, by always turning back toward the wind when you reverse from left to right, would turning enough to do a running crab be a valid option? The goal would be to get downwind enough to hit the spot. It would seem better than fully turning your back to the wind, I would think.


billeisele  (A 5643)

Apr 3, 2012, 3:27 AM
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Re: [dthames] Positioning for "final" in a crunch [In reply to] Can't Post

you may be making this to confusing

fly the canopy based on what is occurring with the wind, obstacles, traffic and landing area

yes, do a crosswind, turn it more downwind or upwind as needed

the somewhat downwind angle may be the thing you are calling a running crab


shropshire  (C License)

Apr 3, 2012, 3:49 AM
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Re: [dthames] Positioning for "final" in a crunch [In reply to] Can't Post

CAVEAT : Asking questions is great (just be a 'bit' careful about where you ask and who's advice you take).

Please have a chat with your instructors about Landing Priorities...... Being into wind is NOT top of the list.


canopy above your head... not turning ... not hitting stuff ... into wind (if possible) etc..


fcajump  (D 15598)

Apr 3, 2012, 7:01 AM
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Re: [dthames] Positioning for "final" in a crunch [In reply to] Can't Post

DThames

GREAT Question.
PLEASE read the cautions about advice given here.
If you want to take my advice, you MUST discuss it with your instructor first.

Having said that, this is a very good thing to prepare for. I've faced that situation a couple times, and once was with only a few more jumps than you.

You can S turn, sit in deep brakes and make flat turns. As to not turning away from your target, that's generally good advice. You can hold (not advance on the field) while making S turns toward the target as shown (see attached). If you follow the arrows, it always turns toward the target, but angles so as to keep my distance until I'm low enough to make my final approach.

Depending on the length of the field, you may need to be close to the trees. Just don't get youself far enough from the edge that you catch on the last row of trees...

As to the landing direction, I would take a crosswind landing in order to get a longer field dimension... Especially in the light winds you described.

In heavier winds you will also find two complications...
1. The down wind treeline (where we're making our S turns) may cause an updraft as the wind hits the trees and surges up to get over them. You may need to cross into the field a bit before you are able to decend.
2. There will be a nasty curl coming from the up-wind tree line that can be very rough on canopies. How bad, and how far into the field it extends will be dependent on how fast the wind is blowing.

Now, as to practicing for these things.
S turns, flying in heavy brakes and flat turns are GREAT skills that you should learn. BUT, get a canopy coach, make sure you are NOT near anyone, start learning up high and NOT in pattern (this is mostly a problem for S turns).
I do not recommend ever flying downwind of an obsticle like a treeline with high winds... you don't want that kind of "experience".Pirate

You are welcome to take this posting and its graphic to discuss with your instructor. But don't just "learn it on DiZzy.COM".

Blue Skies... keep asking questions.
JW
Cool

Edited to add graphic.... sorry


(This post was edited by fcajump on Apr 3, 2012, 10:59 AM)
Attachments: holding.jpg (56.9 KB)


dthames  (B 37674)

Apr 3, 2012, 10:46 AM
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Re: [fcajump] Positioning for "final" in a crunch [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks gentlemen.

I don't see the graphic and Yes my instructors are those who's advice I act on first.

I know good approach planning should remove the need but the specific question was about how move downwind of the target when you didnt have the altitude to turn and fly downwind. I need to see JW's graphic to see if we are on the same page. I think maybe we are.


Yes, landing into the wind is not on the landing requirement list. Nice, but not required.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Apr 3, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Re: [dthames] Positioning for "final" in a crunch [In reply to] Can't Post

Graphics been added (sorry Unsure).

GREAT questions... Keep asking.
(Keeps us old foggies from getting foggy Laugh )

JW


dthames  (B 37674)

Apr 3, 2012, 3:12 PM
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Re: [fcajump] Positioning for "final" in a crunch [In reply to] Can't Post

JW, Yes (looking at the attached image) that is what I was thinking might be done. I will confer with my instructors about the specifics.

I have been doing static line so they can put me out on the way up (C-182) and allow me to have the entire field to do training drills on. It is sort of nice to be able to do that without altering the load(s).

Thanks, again.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Apr 3, 2012, 7:43 PM
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Re: [dthames] Positioning for "final" in a crunch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
JW, Yes (looking at the attached image) that is what I was thinking might be done. I will confer with my instructors about the specifics.

I have been doing static line so they can put me out on the way up (C-182) and allow me to have the entire field to do training drills on. It is sort of nice to be able to do that without altering the load(s).

Thanks, again.

Hey, I did a modified static line progression myself... (thinking about being put out on the rope again just for ol' time sake... its been 22 years since my FJC) Have fun, be safe, keep asking questions!!

Blue Skies,
JW



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