Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Increase # of returning students

 

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burd0352  (D License)

Mar 26, 2012, 10:18 AM
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I want to see what some dropzones or instructors are doing to get their students to keep jumping. Whether it's after tandem or First Jump Course, what do you do? Handouts, discounts, mentor progam, promotional material, etc. What have you found to work the best/worst?

Thanks


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Mar 26, 2012, 4:53 PM
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In reply to:
I want to see what some dropzones or instructors are doing to get their students to keep jumping. Whether it's after tandem or First Jump Course, what do you do? Handouts, discounts, mentor progam, promotional material, etc. What have you found to work the best/worst?

Thanks

I ran a DZ for a few years and we had an unusually high rate of students return.

It was easy. We had full-tilt badass parties every Saturday night and invited, encouraged, coerced, and arm-twisted our students to stay for the festivities. Those who did almost always came back and most became licensed jumpers.

Nothing brings a student back like being asked to party with the coolest people on the planet while they are still high on their experience.


gregpso  (Student)

Mar 26, 2012, 5:20 PM
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On the contrary A Victorian drop zone I REGULARLY WENT TO drove me away from jumping cause they did not like new jumpers researching equipment.

NO one ever asked me to stay around after jumping I think they were glad to see me go.

I am sure their is a brotherhood AND SISTERHOOD (NOTE KGB AND GOLDEN BROWN) but I never experienced it.. in fact the reverse


(This post was edited by gregpso on Mar 26, 2012, 5:47 PM)


demoknite  (D License)

Mar 26, 2012, 5:27 PM
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Re: [gregpso] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

Those things actually dont make people come back, though the do help. If your DZ has a cool vibe and the locals make an effort to genuinely engage the students and, as mentioned, get to see some after hour activities, thats what gets people back.


gregpso  (Student)

Mar 26, 2012, 5:33 PM
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Yeah I briefly went to another Victorian Drop zone (Bridgewater) and noticed a big difference. FOR THE BETTER


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Mar 26, 2012, 8:57 PM
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i often suggested an idea, which was roundly dismissed by just about EVERYone,,,,,!!!ShockedUnsure
but which i STILL believe WOULD encourage repeat tandems.....

basically, do NOT offer video to First Time Tandem studentsShockedCrazyAngelicTongue
..... If they want to be the U Tube Star , of their own skydiving video,,,, encourage them to make a SECOND jump.... and then,, At THAT point, give them the absolute BEST TAndem Video possible... Cool
WHY would a person wanna spend 200 bucks AGAIn,,,?? to do something that may have scared the hell outta them, the first time...? When all they need to do is sit in front of their TV and Re-Experience jump # 1 over and over again....???? see that big smile again,, literally enjoy the adrenaline rush over and over... at No cost whatsoever??

Call the Fist jump a 'training skydive' and then entice them BACK with the lure of a video on # 2....
hell I , and many of my pals had 1,000s of jumps before EVER seeing even a simple snapshot of ourselves in freefall....and WE came back..... yeah yeah yeah.. I've heard it all.... "some people Only jump the FIRST time because of video..." " you need the videos so that people will Share the excitement, with their friends and encourage THEM to make a jump.."... well SURE.. But those videos Will do the same job,, IF they are given on jumps # 2, 3 or 4... I'm all for giving a student an Ice cream Sundae on jump # 1... but IF we saved the Cherry and Hot fudge, and required a 2nd jump for That... i bet the response WOULD be there.... AND a DZ could GET that advertisement just as effectively....AND increase the retention rate at the same time...

If someone ONLY jumps , Because of said video... my response is,,, They can stay on the ground......
Of course the dropzone, needs to be set Up to accommodate all that extra business, a big plane sure helps , as does adequate gear and staff... But if a place HAS that, then all those 2nd and 3rd jump folks, would not only increase the up and coming jumpers it would put extra revenue into the cash register without having to find NEW folks to fill the manifest.. I'm not a TM but but it seems sensible to me that a person who has ALREADY experienced one tandem jump is a way easier person to take on a 2nd or third.......than Another raw rookie would be, on a first jump.
imho


gregpso  (Student)

Mar 27, 2012, 1:12 AM
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Re: [jimmytavino] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

$200 bucks ??? try $399 in Australia I conceed some DZs will give you a second on the same day ONLY for $210 (which they say is below cost price)

I doubt if the cost structures are $200 per jump difference in both countries.

The word profiteering comes to mind.. not much competition either.

First jump AFF course $570


(This post was edited by gregpso on Mar 27, 2012, 2:30 AM)


obelixtim  (D 84)

Mar 27, 2012, 2:54 AM
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Quote:
The word profiteering comes to mind.. not much competition either.

First jump AFF course $570

The word "ripoff" comes to my mind....


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Mar 27, 2012, 6:36 AM
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Re: [obelixtim] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

jump tickets are $45 at some dzs here.

oh good Greg found another forum to complain on. thought your account was blocked on SS?

this is going to be fun.


gregpso  (Student)

Mar 27, 2012, 6:43 AM
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Yeah cannot get rid of me that easy !! Convince me the $200 diference in dooms is justified and I will shutup.. for a couple of days. PS do not take me too seriously like the folk on SS did.. this is only cyber space after all. However I like to ask questions I have an inquiring mind.. but it ruined me on SS


(This post was edited by gregpso on Mar 27, 2012, 6:52 AM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Mar 27, 2012, 8:01 AM
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Re: [hcsvader] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like he has a legitimate complaint on the face of it.

The part we don't know about is DZ operating costs.


UliToo  (Student)

Mar 27, 2012, 2:58 PM
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Re: [burd0352] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I want to see what some dropzones or instructors are doing to get their students to keep jumping. Whether it's after tandem or First Jump Course, what do you do? Handouts, discounts, mentor progam, promotional material, etc. What have you found to work the best/worst?

Thanks

Why would a student not continue with the sport after spending a lot of money on the training? I've noticed that a lot of posters have few jumps and haven't written for a long time, which makes me believe they don't jump anymore. Maybe it's because I'm pre-AFF Tongue and everything looks exciting from this angle, but I'd think that getting better and learning new things would just make people WANT to come back more. I had no idea DZ's had a problem keeping students.

I guess I'm not contributing to answering your question, but it struck me as odd so I had to pipe in.Tongue


gregpso  (Student)

Mar 27, 2012, 6:07 PM
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Re: [popsjumper] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

Pops here in Australia its a bit strange one is not allowed to question anything. You just have to pay the $399 and dare not ask for the cost breakdown.

Also as a student I dared to raise why skyhooks are not on student gear response " sit down and shut up" !!! (paraphrasing) I am actually banned from AFF at a drop zone because I ask too much stuff.

Trouble is there is only 3000 licence jumpers with only around 1 or two turbine Dzs in each state and some states do not even have that. Not much competition like in the good old USA.

Of course all the DZs are very well run with very good instruction but we pay (over the odds) I think.


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Mar 27, 2012, 7:38 PM
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or maybe things are just more expensive here? min wage is around $20/hr right?
tandem here cost around 400 and sport jumps around 40. its about half that much in the states.
it must be a conspiracy by all the evil dzos who just want to steal your money. if so why are some of the member run club dzs here more expensive?

you've been banned from 2 dzs in Australia... one of which i find to be the frendliest I've ever been to. they even put up with me. so if your not welcome there i think its safe to say that your the problem.


jayrech

Mar 27, 2012, 9:42 PM
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Re: [hcsvader] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

If tbey put up with Vader they must be a patient and understanding!


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Mar 27, 2012, 9:56 PM
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Aus is a far more expensive country but so is the level of income ... while the whole gap seems a bit irreconcilable but a lot of it is understandable. You have had your bit in one forum and are only representing one small part of your story... even in the US, where things are much cheaper, people will not give some one a free AFF course and bend over backwards to help you.. I will probably get a warning for this from a mod but you are contributing nothing to this topic (which is an issue of interest at a DZ I now work at) and whining with no valid reason to.


hcsvader  (E 2952)

Mar 27, 2012, 11:23 PM
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its ok we can still call him names in the camel paddock. :-)


gregpso  (Student)

Mar 28, 2012, 12:04 AM
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Re: [hcsvader] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

Get your facts right mate I am not banned at Bridgewater Ralph said I can come back whenever I want.

A great friendly place. ps self imposed ban on SS I asked for the account to be suspended remember ?

where in any post have I said anything but eternal gratitude to Ralph and bridgy for the 2 free AFFS ??

For you USA folk this is what happens when you dare ask questions.

Sit down shut up go away !! Pour scorn !!

Good to see all my fans from Aus are following me here

You all take life too seriously. Australian skydiving for what I can see is in great shape and long may it continue. Bit pricey however All drop zones I have been too are well run professional places.... now about skyhooks (LOL)

OK I am leaving here as well. (I am getting stalked half way around the world) LOL

Good luck Good jumping thanks to those who helped me in Aus. For those that hate me good luck to you to. Stay safe

I am very grateful for the experiences I had. Now that I am gone you can all lighten up a bit.

gregdemon/gregpso over and out... Roger that !!


(This post was edited by gregpso on Mar 28, 2012, 12:38 AM)


kallend  (D 23151)

Mar 28, 2012, 7:30 AM
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Re: [burd0352] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I always thought that in addition to giving a first time jumper a video of their tandem skydive, DZs should also give them a promotional DVD showing all the cool things that skydivers do AFTER completing training, like bigways, vRW, CRW, wingsuiting, etc.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Mar 28, 2012, 10:45 AM
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In reply to:
... DZs should also give them a promotional DVD showing all the cool things that skydivers do AFTER completing training, like bigways, vRW, CRW, wingsuiting, etc.

I put my old all-disciplines skydive promo movie on the staticline course DVD whenever I am asked to do one Cool


gregpso  (Student)

Mar 28, 2012, 2:54 PM
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Re: [dirtbox] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok one more if your Dz really wants repeat business

1. make students feel welcome (not just customers)

2. invite them to stay afterwards

3. Some times Engage in conversations about other stuff besides jumping. (take personal interest)

4 Do not ignore them when they just turn up to watch !! (ie hello greg ,, jumping today ? " no just watching " back turned walk off ignore rest of day !!

5 "Would you like to see how a canopy is packed come with me !! etc

ps hcvader with the free 2 jumps I got at bridgy I paid for my AFP membership paid full price for a dvd on the second jump and put $50 on the bar. So yes I was still well ahead. THANKS Ralph.


(This post was edited by gregpso on Mar 28, 2012, 5:12 PM)


Rogersmoke

Mar 28, 2012, 6:10 PM
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Re: [gregpso] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone wanting to bash greg needs to read what he said.

As a student ANY DZ that did those 5 things would have me for life
All seem to take pride in doing the exact opposite we

are cool you are the nerd now watch my greatness and all the sky gods running around with their nose in the air can kiss my ass
Your ability impresses me but Your attitude stinks

If I want to pay a bunch of money to have a great experience and get treated like shit I have no loyalty for your drop zone


dthames  (B 37674)

Mar 28, 2012, 7:06 PM
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Re: [burd0352] Increase # of returning students [In reply to] Can't Post

My response might not apply exactly to the original question, but it might be noteworthy. I am a student with some difficulties. Several times I have struggled with the decision to continue or not. My last ditch plan was to start over and do static line training. Still I continue to consider if I really want to continue training or not. I did two jumps last Saturday and the instructor was kind enough to give me raw video footage of my exits. Those have been very helpful to study. By reviewing them over and over, I keep thinking about what I did and what I can do better. I am spending more time considering what I will do in my next jump. It is fresh on my mind (refreshed and relived by the video) and I am eager for my next chance to jump. Would I continue even without the videomost likely. But the video does have some value, at least with me, that will help bring me back.


Rogersmoke

Mar 28, 2012, 7:30 PM
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BUT will it make you come back to skydiving or did that extra effort make you feel like you wanted to go back to that dropzone because you felt like they gave the extra effort
WHAT has a dropzone done for you to make you want to come back outside of risking their life's for your money cause it sure was not for you You are a dollar sign no matter what they tell you unless you hang around long enough and pay them enough

It was not for DAN it was for BEN FRANKLIN LOTS OF THEM
Loving the Fuck up students that they make bets on and laugh behind their back at
How stupid they are. And how much money they will make off the ones who they know have no chance of making it but sure as hell take every fucking penny from them .
Making bets on how many jumps they will last

Hey lets be nice for a second cause they still got a little money left and might go somewhere that actually teaches skydiving instead of taking money just for letting someone jump out of their plane and with me the great sky god.
Treating the ones like my self who breeze through training with no problem also like a dollar

want to help me get a parachute yeah here.s a catalog and order form their eyes light up thinking about that commision and i bet not one mother fucker there knows my name or ever asked me to stay for a beer,
So what makes you want to go back to a dropzone?
Cause I sure would like to find some that act anything like the people that post on these forums

At what point do you bring them in to your private little group OR some just TOURIST i believe you call them forever or until their money is gone?


(This post was edited by Rogersmoke on Mar 28, 2012, 7:33 PM)


dthames  (B 37674)

Mar 28, 2012, 8:32 PM
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In reply to:
BUT will it make you come back to skydiving or did that extra effort make you feel like you wanted to go back to that dropzone because you felt like they gave the extra effort
WHAT has a dropzone done for you to make you want to come back outside of risking their life's for your money cause it sure was not for you....<snip>

Well, for starters they took me as a student after another DZ told me to hit the road after they had passed me on AFF A and B jumps, because I got motion sick.

The owner, staff, and all involved function more like a bunch of friends than a business and customers.

Going for the 5 items......
Yes someone showed me about packing without me asking.

Those that know I have a problem with motion sickness often ask me how I am doing. Maybe it is concern for their car or hair but they seem to care.

It don't matter if you are jumping or not, everyone is right in the middle of everything.

Great concern about safety and following the FAA rules to the letter.

Just Saturday all students were pulled from a load (after we were on the plane) because the winds were 7 gusting to 14 and the DZO thought "better not".

People drive pass one DZ and three hours down the road to get there.

If I said more you would,
1. think I was lying
2. think I owned a share of the business
3. flock to the place and fill up the loads


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