Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
Harness turn equal less drag than toggles?

 


dthames  (B 37674)

Mar 26, 2012, 3:57 PM
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Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? Can't Post

I am a noob so excuse me if this is a “duh” question. I try to study up on canopy fright so I will better know what am doing. In the safety section there is an article about “Cleaning up your turns” with harness inputs. I am flying a student canopy loaded about 0.7 pounds/sq foot, and I know I will not be able to do much with harness inputs with my current configuration. But…..

Saturday I was landing. We had a nice steady breeze. I was on my final leg, coming in short of my target, and also wanted to tweak my direction into the wind just a bit. I could have made adjustments with the toggles but I though any toggle inputs would just shorten my glide (further short). So, I shifted my weight and tried to do the correction with the harness. It was sluggish, as I expected but it did make the adjustment that I was after.

My question is, since my desire was to keep it flying full speed and cover as much ground as I could, did I do myself any good by staying off the toggles or is it 6 of one and half dozen of another?


danielcroft  (D 31103)

Mar 26, 2012, 6:17 PM
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Re: [dthames] Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? [In reply to] Can't Post

Your harness input will change between canopies and loadings. When you're on a lightly loaded canopy (like you are) you're not going to get a lot out of a harness turn. It's good to practice the techniques though as they're good habits.

When people talk about "cleaning up your turns" what (I believe) they're talking about is "coordinated turns" which Brian Germain covers nicely in his book Parachute and its Pilot (http://www.amazon.com/...ot-The/dp/0977627721). The idea is to use harness in addition to brakes when initiating a turn as it's more aerodynamically efficient. Doing solely a harness turn is considered an accelerated turn (at least that's my understanding). You should work on these things with someone local to you so that they can explain in person and make sure you're understanding what's going on.

It's often the case, especially when we're new to something that our perspective is clouded and doesn't allow us to see what we're really doing. Talk to your instructors (if that 13 jumps is right). Canopy flight is a very rewarding part of this sport but, as I'm sure you know, not without its risks. Information is useful but should be treated with respect. Chat with your instructors and go from there.


DaVinciflies

Mar 26, 2012, 9:38 PM
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Re: [dthames] Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? [In reply to] Can't Post

You did the right thing.

If you can* make your adjustments on final using the harness, then you avoiding putting the canopy into a recovery cycle which in turn retains your airspeed and gives you the best chance of a good landing.

Good work, mate.

*for emergency avoidance turns, this is not the best option.


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Mar 27, 2012, 12:09 AM
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Re: [dthames] Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? [In reply to] Can't Post

It sounds as if you made the right choice. Yes, harness turns offer no additional drag unlike toggle turns which increase the drag overall to a surprising degree. Further, toggles alter the yaw axis coordination, as mentioned in the article, and pitch the canopy first positively at the beginning of the turn, and then negatively at the relief of the toggle. This makes toggle turns inappropriate below 100 feet unless you are really gentle. Harness turns flow gracefully in and out of the maneuver, and the flare can easily be started during or immediately following the turn.

One caveat. A harness turn is not exactly snappy on a student canopy. If your chest strap is loosened after a full canopy control check, harness input is more pronounced. Even a large canopy will respond to harness input when combined with good technique (ie, lifting the outside hip and lowering the hip on the inside of the turn, like a dog peeing on a fire hydrant).

The bottom line is, when combined with smooth toggle input, a harness turn places you in position to increase your angle of attack swiftly as the rising planet requires.

I invite you to explore harness turns more deeply. The more tools you have in your toolbelt, the more unconsidered possibilities you will be able to handle.

Happy Landings,
Brian


dthames  (B 37674)

Mar 27, 2012, 4:04 AM
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Re: [BrianSGermain] Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks guys. That is what I wanted to confirm.

Yes, in the student rig i got very little out of my input, but after being shifted as much as I could for about 5 seconds it turned just a bit. That was all I was after. I was curious if my instructor was wondering what I was up to, being cocked in the harness like that.


BrianSGermain  (D 11154)

Mar 27, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Re: [dthames] Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks guys. That is what I wanted to confirm.

Yes, in the student rig i got very little out of my input, but after being shifted as much as I could for about 5 seconds it turned just a bit. That was all I was after. I was curious if my instructor was wondering what I was up to, being cocked in the harness like that.

When we combine harness and toggle input, there is a synergy that makes the turns flow. Even on a canopy that does not turn at all on harness input, there is a big difference between neutral harness toggle turns and those with harness input. Play with the distinction, watch your pilot chute, and go see what I mean. You will like what you learn!

Bri


julio_gyn  (A 705)

Mar 27, 2012, 2:16 PM
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Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? [In reply to] Can't Post

I read as much as I can, but last weekend I had a canopy course and I could really experience what Brian and many very experienced pilots say. there are so many options to be used under canopy and so many little tricks to improve safety and also give a lot of fun.


dthames  (B 37674)

Mar 27, 2012, 4:21 PM
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Re: [BrianSGermain] Harness turn equal less drag than toggles? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
<snip>
When we combine harness and toggle input, there is a synergy that makes the turns flow. Even on a canopy that does not turn at all on harness input, there is a big difference between neutral harness toggle turns and those with harness input. Play with the distinction, watch your pilot chute, and go see what I mean. You will like what you learn!

Bri

Brian, I had practiced my toggle turns with harness inputs when I jumped last, about 11 weeks ago. I was in a turn last Saturday (and I turn easy) and it just didn't feel right. I remembered LEAN, and it was better, just like you said.

Dan



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