Mar 20, 2012, 4:16 PM
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URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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Apache suit owners,
Today in testing, we've found that the pull strength with the auxiliary handles we've shipped out recently on our Apache model wingsuit can be higher than the TSO standard.
Mar 20, 2012, 4:45 PM
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Re: [skydiverek] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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they are a thumb loop on the outside of the suit, attaches to the cables of the reserve and cutaway,
LouDiamond (D 25931)
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Mar 21, 2012, 3:35 PM
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Re: [Tony-tonysuits] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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The following from DZO John Hamilton:
We recently had two jumpers show up at Skydive Elsinore with Tony Suits new Apache Wing. The suits came with auxiliary handles (Thumb loops) which attached to both the cutaway and reserve cables and were routed through slits made in the jumpsuit. This was designed as Tony Suits new Apache Wing-suit actually covered access to both the cutaway and reserve handles.
This obviously posed concerns as it could of been a violation of the TSO testing which each rig manufacturer has to go through with the modification and usage of the Reserve Parachute.
When we pull tested the equipment, we found that the pull test resulted in forces exceeding the TSO testing standards of 22 pounds. Upon contacting Tony Uruagallo of Tony Suits and shared this information, he immediately conducted further testing and found the same results when the thumb loop were attached and issued the following statement:
Apache suit owners,
Today in testing, we've found that the pull strength with the auxiliary handles we've shipped out recently on our Apache model wing suit can be higher than the TSO standard.
We recommend you NOT use them.
Tony
Tonysuits
Fellow DZO's, please be on the lookout for anyone jumping Apache Wing Suits with the usage of Auxiliary Handles (Thumb loops). There can be mod's done on the Apache Wing-suits from the manufacturer or qualified rigger which places the handles in their original configuration and accessible to the outside of the Wing-suit
Mar 21, 2012, 6:12 PM
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Re: [Tony-tonysuits] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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Shouldn't these kind of features be tested under different circumstances and configurations and be proven 100% reliable BEFORE the product goes on sale?
(This post was edited by Teigen on Mar 21, 2012, 6:12 PM)
Mar 21, 2012, 8:04 PM
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Re: [Teigen] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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Shouldn't these kind of features be tested under different circumstances and configurations and be proven 100% reliable BEFORE the product goes on sale?
Maybe people should have tried to use the product in methods not originally intended. It was always designed as a BASE suit.
Mar 22, 2012, 9:42 AM
Post #12 of 67
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Re: [diablopilot] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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Maybe young up-jumpers need more guidance in their gear selection due to a lack of knowledge.
I firmly believe this needs to be made aware more direct to EVERY jumper. TS should notify USPA and all forms of jumper information via the industry publications and parent governing bodies worldwide.
Mar 22, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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If it was designed for BASE, why the need for the handles THAT COME WITH IT TO USE FOR SKYDIVING???
cpoxon (D 11665)
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Mar 22, 2012, 10:53 AM
Post #14 of 67
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Re: [normiss] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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Any idea how many (factory) modified Apaches are in the field? Presumably TS has contact details for every customer with modified suits and has contacted them personally? Still, they should contact the NGBs and publicatons as you say. Nothing to stop people contacting their own NGBs as well.
The BPA has been made aware of the issue and the info should have been disseminated down to all DZs by now.
Mar 22, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #16 of 67
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Re: [diablopilot] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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In reply to:
Shouldn't these kind of features be tested under different circumstances and configurations and be proven 100% reliable BEFORE the product goes on sale?
Maybe people should have tried to use the product in methods not originally intended. It was alwaysoriginally designed as a BASE suit.
If Tony had stuck to his guns and kept it as a BASE only suit, this wouldn't be an issue. As soon as you start offering factory mods to let customers skydive it, you can't say it wasn't intended for skydiving.
And if you design those mods, you should probably do some testing on them before you release them.
cpoxon (D 11665)
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Mar 22, 2012, 12:41 PM
Post #17 of 67
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Re: [normiss] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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If it was designed for BASE, why the need for the handles THAT COME WITH IT TO USE FOR SKYDIVING???
Whilst designed for very experienced Wingsuit pilots, surely one would still be advised to explore the flight envelope of a new suit with as much altitude as possible i.e. from a plane, rather than from a fixed object.
cpoxon (D 11665)
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Mar 22, 2012, 12:45 PM
Post #18 of 67
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Re: [normiss] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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Presumably? You good with that?
I give.
I don't give a shit. I don't jump those damn things anyway.
carry on.
I'll stop worrying about people surviving this sport. This damn place doesn't care anyway.
"Presumably" is a polite British way of suggesting that is one of the things that should be done.
No, I'm not good with it, which is why I forwarded the details to my NGB to ensure it was disseminated,even with the small chance there are modified suits in the UK and the people jumping them aren't intelligent enough to realise what a bad idea they are in their current configuration.
Mar 22, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Re: [jakee] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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I don't base, but would'nt it be a really bad idea to test jump a new suit in the base enviroment ? The base jumpers I've met do lots of practice jumps from planes with new suits.
Mar 22, 2012, 1:10 PM
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Re: [cpoxon] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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Whilst designed for very experienced Wingsuit pilots, surely one would still be advised to explore the flight envelope of a new suit with as much altitude as possible i.e. from a plane, rather than from a fixed object.
This was exactly the reason why these two guys showed up at Skydive Elsinore.
cpoxon (D 11665)
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Mar 22, 2012, 1:35 PM
Post #22 of 67
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Re: [normiss] URGENT....Apache owners, discontinue use of new handles
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If it was designed for BASE, why the need for the handles THAT COME WITH IT TO USE FOR SKYDIVING???
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