Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Tandem waivers

 


theonlyski  (D License)

Mar 20, 2012, 8:20 PM
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Tandem waivers Can't Post

Looking at the Sigma manual, it states:

Quote:
Video and assumption of risk agreement:
The student must view the waiver video and sign the waiver. Be careful to abide by all United Parachute Technologies & USPA provisions in the exemption, such as students age, etc... If the video machine is out-of-order or the tape is lost, it is the same as if the aircraft is inoperative. NO ONE may make a Tandem jump without seeing the waiver video and signing the waiver.

Now, someone with a shit ton of tandems has told me that the waivers and video aren't required, something about the exemption having changed?

This person told me that there are a few DZ's that don't show the video or make the stu sign the tandem rig waiver.

Discuss?


RIGGER160  (D 12345)

Mar 20, 2012, 9:02 PM
Post #2 of 19 (3028 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In the tandem course I was told they have to watch it but when our old disk started skipping we couldn't find the video anywhere on UPTs website or anywhere else for that matter.


theonlyski  (D License)

Mar 20, 2012, 9:06 PM
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Re: [RIGGER160] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

It's listed here: http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/...andem_Price_List.pdf (DVD, WAIVER 25)

Just curious what everyone else is thinking/saying about it.

Thanks again for those pics the other day!


skydived19006  (D 19006)

Mar 20, 2012, 9:55 PM
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In my opinion, the waiver video helps to cover your ass, and the DZO along with the rig manufacturer. It wouldn't hurt to show the RWS video when using Strong gear.


wolfriverjoe  (A 50013)

Mar 21, 2012, 6:09 AM
Post #5 of 19 (2938 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

MY understanding is that the video is purely a requirment of UPT. Other companies (Strong in particular) don't have it.

I was part of a joint effort for a fundraiser deal where we had both Strong and Sigma rigs. We made everyone watch the video because there was no certainty who was going with whom at that point.

My further understanding is that the secondary Tandem waiver (the one over and above the standard DZ waiver) isn't mandatory anymore . It's the one that states the tandem rig is considered an "experimental aircraft" and that it is operating under an exemtion to the rules that prohibit commercial operation of experimental aircraft.

But even though the tandem exemption was lifted (it was, wasn't it??) and written into the regs, we still had people read and sign it just to add another layer.

I certainly could be wrong in my understanding. If anyone knows differently, please let me know.


billbooth  (D 3546)

Mar 21, 2012, 4:33 PM
Post #6 of 19 (2839 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

The UPT Tandem "Waiver Tape" AND the written "Assumption of Risk Agreement" are MANDITORY, as per the UPT User Agreement, for each and every tandem jump made in the US, and any other country where a lawsuit might result from a tandem injury or fatality. It is utterly stupid to do tandem without the protections both the tape and the written agreement afford. You are also reminded that no one under the legal age to enter contracts, usually 18, but in some states older, are permitted to make a tandem in the US.

Without these agreements there would probably be NO tandem jumping in the United States. I can't believe this question is even being asked.


theonlyski  (D License)

Mar 21, 2012, 4:37 PM
Post #7 of 19 (2836 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The UPT Tandem "Waiver Tape" AND the written "Assumption of Risk Agreement" are MANDITORY, as per the UPT User Agreement, for each and every tandem jump made in the US, and any other country where a lawsuit might result from a tandem injury or fatality. It is utterly stupid to do tandem without the protections both the tape and the written agreement afford. You are also reminded that no one under the legal age to enter contracts, usually 18, but in some states older, are permitted to make a tandem in the US.

Without these agreements there would probably be NO tandem jumping in the United States. I can't believe this question is even being asked.

Thanks. This actually came from someone that I just bought a Micro Sigma from. Seemed to be wrong, but I know when I did my first tandem 4 years ago on a Sigma, I had to fill out the waiver and watch the video.

I hope to be attending the Sigma and USPA TI course next week, just trying to gather all of the information (my DZ uses Strong dual hawks, which I've never really liked) so I can adjust our manifesting to keep legal with a Sigma in the rotation.

By the way, this is my second UPT rig- love them! Thanks for all your hard work!


Snowwhite

Mar 21, 2012, 6:19 PM
Post #8 of 19 (2810 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess it really doesn't matter what WE think does it?
It really only matters what some lawyers, in some courtroom, with some jury's think, right?
Which is easier, 15 minutes of video, or 3 years and countless dollars of litigation?


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 21, 2012, 10:33 PM
Post #9 of 19 (2765 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Without these agreements there would probably be NO tandem jumping in the United States. I can't believe this question is even being asked.

You and me both. It's different day Bill. Every asshat out there thinks they know it all.....


Krip  (Student)

Mar 21, 2012, 10:54 PM
Post #10 of 19 (2760 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The UPT Tandem "Waiver Tape" AND the written "Assumption of Risk Agreement" are MANDITORY, as per the UPT User Agreement, for each and every tandem jump made in the US, and any other country where a lawsuit might result from a tandem injury or fatality. It is utterly stupid to do tandem without the protections both the tape and the written agreement afford. You are also reminded that no one under the legal age to enter contracts, usually 18, but in some states older, are permitted to make a tandem in the US.

Without these agreements there would probably be NO tandem jumping in the United States. I can't believe this question is even being asked.

Mr Booth

Thank you for correcting another "DZ rumor".


SpectreDriver  (D 26287)

Mar 22, 2012, 8:25 PM
Post #11 of 19 (2686 views)
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Re: [Krip] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

Is the video being discussed the same one I remember from the early 90's??

What's the easiest way to get a copy of this video on DVD format?
I can't find my VHS player anymore. Think wife may have sold it in a garage sale.... (The player, not the video.)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Mar 23, 2012, 4:42 PM
Post #12 of 19 (2609 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The UPT Tandem "Waiver Tape" AND the written "Assumption of Risk Agreement" are MANDITORY, as per the UPT User Agreement, for each and every tandem jump made in the US, and any other country where a lawsuit might result from a tandem injury or fatality. It is utterly stupid to do tandem without the protections both the tape and the written agreement afford. You are also reminded that no one under the legal age to enter contracts, usually 18, but in some states older, are permitted to make a tandem in the US.

Without these agreements there would probably be NO tandem jumping in the United States. I can't believe this question is even being asked.

Bill,

This thread was started by a young prospective Candidate. He has been given incorrect info from one of your current T-I's and another poster has admitted his DZ didn't use the video and they are a UPT Sigma DZ, with a new USPA T-I/E ( one can presume a UPT I/E as well) on staff.

You need to press harder in the enforcement of your end user agreements. I remember signing mine, even for the used rig, and following it, we never stood in court as defendants together, did we? I wold also suggest you make the UPT T-I's sign the same agreement.

Ski started the thread because of the false information that is getting out there, that info is coming from rated individuals. Lets also face that the UPT web page could be a bit more current and easier to navigate for this CORRECT info.

If I wasn't already banned there, i just learned of another DZ i will avoid and not recommend.

Matt


SkydiverDZO  (D 29918)

Mar 23, 2012, 5:45 PM
Post #13 of 19 (2598 views)
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Re: [billbooth] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

The authorative voice of reason. Thank God!


theonlyski  (D License)

Mar 23, 2012, 6:28 PM
Post #14 of 19 (2584 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You and me both. It's different day Bill. Every asshat out there thinks they know it all.....

Referring to me as said asshat? I think that's an incorrect statement to say the least. I came here asking for clarification, not just taking the word of someone as the law. Now that Bill has commented on it, I have it straight from the horses mouth.

I also don't think I know it all... far from it actually.


theonlyski  (D License)

Mar 23, 2012, 6:30 PM
Post #15 of 19 (2583 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

If only there were some sort of examiner seminar to bring this up in, coming up soon.

Thanks again Matt, for all the help along the way. Still wish I could've taken the course with you... No slack!


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 23, 2012, 8:33 PM
Post #16 of 19 (2560 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You and me both. It's different day Bill. Every asshat out there thinks they know it all.....

Referring to me as said asshat? I think that's an incorrect statement to say the least. I came here asking for clarification, not just taking the word of someone as the law. Now that Bill has commented on it, I have it straight from the horses mouth.

I also don't think I know it all... far from it actually.


Was not referring to you at all, and my apologies to you if it seemed that way. If anyone I might have been referring to the person who gave you bogus information, but more to the general populous of skydivers that talks out of their asses rather than using their brains to ask questions from those that obviously have the correct answers.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Mar 24, 2012, 2:03 PM
Post #17 of 19 (2526 views)
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Re: [theonlyski] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If only there were some sort of examiner seminar to bring this up in, coming up soon.

Thanks again Matt, for all the help along the way. Still wish I could've taken the course with you... No slack!

"No Slack", is that other battalion, you asshat. Tongue

You will be fine, and will be in great hands with Bram.

Matt


RIGGER160  (D 12345)

Mar 24, 2012, 8:38 PM
Post #18 of 19 (2481 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

Matt i'm trying to figure out who you are refering to becuase I sure as hell hope you dont mean me. No where in my post did I say we did not show the tandem waiver DVD, it's not nice to make shit up Unimpressed

P.S. Even though you are an asshat for saying the above statement, I still invite you out to our wonderfull DZ.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Mar 25, 2012, 10:40 AM
Post #19 of 19 (2427 views)
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Re: [RIGGER160] Tandem waivers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Matt i'm trying to figure out who you are refering to becuase I sure as hell hope you dont mean me. No where in my post did I say we did not show the tandem waiver DVD, it's not nice to make shit up Unimpressed

P.S. Even though you are an asshat for saying the above statement, I still invite you out to our wonderfull DZ.

No thanks. Even if I wasn't banned, I won't lower myself to your level. What you call wonderful, is not too me.

Matt



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