Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
When rigging, please do / do not...

 

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gowlerk  (C 3196)

Mar 12, 2012, 3:01 PM
Post #51 of 92 (1687 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

    You may have been taught that silicon bumpers are a bad idea. However if you consult the PD manual you will find that they supply and require that you use them if using number 4 Rapide links, also supplied with the canopy.

The manual also shows how to tie them down properly. As always READ THE MANUAL. Was this a PDR?

Ken


(This post was edited by gowlerk on Mar 12, 2012, 3:40 PM)


piisfish

Mar 12, 2012, 3:32 PM
Post #52 of 92 (1677 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

When the top "stop" has totally disappeard and you have 2mm of The threading which is visible you can easily identify it as abused


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 12, 2012, 3:33 PM
Post #53 of 92 (1676 views)
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Re: [gowlerk] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You may have been taught that silicon links are a bad idea. However if you consult the PD manual you will find that they supply and require that you use them if using number 4 Rapide links, also supplied with the canopy.

The manual also shows how to tie them down properly. As always READ THE MANUAL. Was this a PDR?

Ken

IIRC~

My Strong Stellar Reserve came with the Rapide links the bumpers and the cord to tie them down...


fcajump  (D 15598)

Mar 12, 2012, 6:26 PM
Post #54 of 92 (1652 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've recently come across several individuals who have been told not to use the silicone (or vinal) hard link covers. (reference both main and reserves).

This is interesting as they were normal/standard on mains before soft links and seem to still be common with reserves shipped with hard links.

The only thing I recall hearing bad about them was that they should be tacked to ensure they don't get worked up the lines (though some insist this only need be done when they're not tight on the link, I prefer 100% tack).

Is there something I'm missing on the "why" of hard link covers being bad??

(Several reason's they are good - protect the slider grommet from hard impact on the links and keep link/line orientation to prevent side-load and/or single line loading)


JW


captain1976  (D 7183)

Mar 12, 2012, 7:05 PM
Post #55 of 92 (1637 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

please do not use the word "save" to describe a reserve ride on a canopy I packed. I never liked that word and it depicts the fact that a Rigger might have saved the life of someone who would otherwise have died.


yoink

Mar 12, 2012, 10:59 PM
Post #56 of 92 (1598 views)
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Re: [captain1976] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it depicts the fact that a Rigger might have saved the life of someone who would otherwise have died.

eh?


cavscout73  (C 40414)

Mar 19, 2012, 7:21 PM
Post #57 of 92 (1496 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe its not the right spot but what do you do when you decide to sell a rig.
1) been inspected on reserve intervals
2)prior to selling you have a third party rigger check it out for airworthyness.
3 buyer gets the rig then gets his rigger to say its unairworthy?? well if its a paypal sale you are out of luck and selling shit all over again!
my question is here.. is it different standards, different opinions on whats good or is it the fact that the person inspecting had something to sell himself and thought that saying bad rig better send it back and buy mine instead??
I am still learning this sport only been in it a couple years and havent sold much but whats the general thoughts out there?


(This post was edited by cavscout73 on Mar 19, 2012, 7:21 PM)


TMPattersonJr  (D 30299)

Mar 19, 2012, 9:15 PM
Post #58 of 92 (1481 views)
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Re: [fcajump] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

HMMM.... I'm one of the Inspectors at Parachute Labs (Jump Shack) and we send every main and reserve in the field with hard links with a rubber surgical tubing for cover. The tubing is always tight on the link but we still require that they all be tied down on the reserves. Most jumpers using Ty. 17 main risers (Most of us these days) we do not require them to be tied down but, suggest that the tubing be slid just far enough on the link that the top (line end) of the link is just covered. The remainder of the tubing covers the link and possibly some of the top of the riser.


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 19, 2012, 10:01 PM
Post #59 of 92 (1472 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

It always drives me nuts when I pack a PD reserve and the number of packjobs recorded on the packing data card doesn't match the number of checks on the TSO box. Those records should match.


piisfish

May 19, 2012, 3:33 PM
Post #60 of 92 (1327 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are out of red seal thread, it is better IMO to leave the rig unsealed (specially in countries where it is not mandatory ) rather than to improvise some seal thread with 8 turns of an other thread. Reached over 25kg/50lbs pull to move the pin and open the reserve Mad


theonlyski  (D License)

May 19, 2012, 8:13 PM
Post #61 of 92 (1283 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

On that note, also don't use two turns of seal thread to keep the seal in place if one breaks.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 20, 2012, 7:56 AM
Post #62 of 92 (1196 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you are out of red seal thread, it is better IMO to leave the rig unsealed (specially in countries where it is not mandatory ) rather than to improvise some seal thread with 8 turns of an other thread. Reached over 25kg/50lbs pull to move the pin and open the reserve Mad

.....................................................................

You can any cheap, flimsy embroidery thread, as long as it breaks at less than 4 pounds.

Hint: the MIL SPE for seal thread includes a minimum breacing strength of 3.75 ponds.


piisfish

May 20, 2012, 11:37 AM
Post #63 of 92 (1172 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

it was a nylon thread which broke at around 10lbs...
plus there wasn't even a seal of any kind Unsure
and I am not commenting on the packjob which was clearly not anywhere close to any manual I have ever seen...
fortunately, the rigger left all his contacts with the data cards. Will give him a call


(This post was edited by piisfish on May 20, 2012, 11:39 AM)
Attachments: IMG_0921.JPG (95.3 KB)


Squeak  (E 1313)

May 20, 2012, 4:25 PM
Post #64 of 92 (1114 views)
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Re: [Unstable] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It always drives me nuts when I pack a PD reserve and the number of packjobs recorded on the packing data card doesn't match the number of checks on the TSO box. Those records should match.
what if someone changes out the reserve, the packing card stays with the H&C. It's not mandatory for the card and reserve panel to match


Premier likestojump  (D License)

May 20, 2012, 5:19 PM
Post #65 of 92 (1101 views)
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Re: [Squeak] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
It always drives me nuts when I pack a PD reserve and the number of packjobs recorded on the packing data card doesn't match the number of checks on the TSO box. Those records should match.
what if someone changes out the reserve, the packing card stays with the H&C. It's not mandatory for the card and reserve panel to match

And that brings me to my personal pet peeve - people who insist that the data card goes with the container.

Ever seen the old style data cards ? They list nothing but the reserve canopy info ! (pic attached)
Attachments: IMG_9307.JPG (141 KB)


Squeak  (E 1313)

May 20, 2012, 5:31 PM
Post #66 of 92 (1098 views)
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Re: [likestojump] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
It always drives me nuts when I pack a PD reserve and the number of packjobs recorded on the packing data card doesn't match the number of checks on the TSO box. Those records should match.
what if someone changes out the reserve, the packing card stays with the H&C. It's not mandatory for the card and reserve panel to match

And that brings me to my personal pet peeve - people who insist that the data card goes with the container.

Ever seen the old style data cards ? They list nothing but the reserve canopy info ! (pic attached)
the cards in my Rig come from the H&C mfg. those cards also record any work carried out on the TSO'd H&C, It's my understanding that the panel on the reserve is there for just such reasons, so that in the absence of a Card repack evidence and history is readily available.


Premier likestojump  (D License)

May 20, 2012, 5:56 PM
Post #67 of 92 (1092 views)
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Re: [Squeak] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
It always drives me nuts when I pack a PD reserve and the number of packjobs recorded on the packing data card doesn't match the number of checks on the TSO box. Those records should match.
what if someone changes out the reserve, the packing card stays with the H&C. It's not mandatory for the card and reserve panel to match

And that brings me to my personal pet peeve - people who insist that the data card goes with the container.

Ever seen the old style data cards ? They list nothing but the reserve canopy info ! (pic attached)
the cards in my Rig come from the H&C mfg. those cards also record any work carried out on the TSO'd H&C, It's my understanding that the panel on the reserve is there for just such reasons, so that in the absence of a Card repack evidence and history is readily available.

The only reserves that I am aware of having a tail data label is the PDR and Optimum series from Performance Designs. There may be others, but the tail checkboxes are by not means an industry standard.

By your logic, what happens when your data card is the generic type (the generic PIA design, which in my experience is very common), with no attribute to a particular manufacturer ? (example attached)
Attachments: IMG_3109.JPG (162 KB)


Squeak  (E 1313)

May 20, 2012, 7:00 PM
Post #68 of 92 (1069 views)
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Re: [likestojump] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

The only reserves that I am aware of having a tail data label is the PDR and Optimum series from Performance Designs. There may be others, but the tail checkboxes are by not means an industry standard.

By your logic, what happens when your data card is the generic type (the generic PIA design, which in my experience is very common), with no attribute to a particular manufacturer ? (example attached)
Sorry didnt know it was only PD with the check boxes. I made (an obviously incorrect) assumption.

My logic might be flawed here, but given the fact that the rig is also TSO'd to me, it makes sense to maintain a log of work down on the H&C.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

May 20, 2012, 11:05 PM
Post #69 of 92 (1022 views)
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Re: [Squeak] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
It always drives me nuts when I pack a PD reserve and the number of packjobs recorded on the packing data card doesn't match the number of checks on the TSO box. Those records should match.
what if someone changes out the reserve, the packing card stays with the H&C. It's not mandatory for the card and reserve panel to match

..................................................................

Traditionally, the packing data card went with the reserve canopy.
This made sense back when containers wore out long before reserve canopies.
It also made more sense before AADs had complex maintenance schedules and harness/containers had multiple Service Bulletins, Airworthiness Directives, Technical Bulletins, etc.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

May 21, 2012, 6:26 AM
Post #70 of 92 (978 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
it was a nylon thread which broke at around 10lbs...
plus there wasn't even a seal of any kind Unsure
and I am not commenting on the packjob which was clearly not anywhere close to any manual I have ever seen...
fortunately, the rigger left all his contacts with the data cards. Will give him a call

See now? THAT is integrity.
Good stuff, 'fish!


(This post was edited by popsjumper on May 21, 2012, 6:26 AM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

May 21, 2012, 6:31 AM
Post #71 of 92 (974 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Traditionally, the packing data card went with the reserve canopy.
This made sense back when containers wore out long before reserve canopies.
It also made more sense before AADs had complex maintenance schedules and harness/containers had multiple Service Bulletins, Airworthiness Directives, Technical Bulletins, etc.

Both cards show in the pics are titled, "Parachute Record Log". Neither of them say "H/C packing log".
Let's stick with "tradition".


fcajump  (D 15598)

May 21, 2012, 7:12 AM
Post #72 of 92 (961 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

(Directed in general, RR was just the last in the thread)

I'd always been told that the card went with the reserve canopy.
This was emphasised to me when I had a rig reharnessed (by RWS) and they sent a separate card marked (by hand) as the H&C maintanance log.

Following the aircraft maintanence model, I can see a day when we will have 2 or 3 cards:
- H&C
- Canopy
- AAD
And it will be required that all prior cards be kept with the component to show its history (grandfathered in for items serviced prior to enforcement date...).

I think PD (with some others in the PEP world) has also been in the lead to communicate to the community that this stuff does not last forever.

Just my $.02,
JW


piisfish

May 21, 2012, 7:32 AM
Post #73 of 92 (956 views)
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Re: [fcajump] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

the french have 4 separate cards
-H/C
-Reserve canopy
-Main Canopy
-AAD
there is sometimes a cross reference (depending on who issues the cards) on the H/C card to state which components are inside


fcajump  (D 15598)

May 21, 2012, 7:41 AM
Post #74 of 92 (945 views)
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Re: [piisfish] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that many are going to argue that "its too hard" but frankly I think it is, in the long run, a good thing.

For example - if the (1) card goes with the canopy, how do I know if an AD/SB was complied with on the harness container after the canopy has been swapped? Give me a separate card with that data and I don't have to re-run the required test...

Not sure I care to worry about the main enough to have a card. HOWEVER, there is a push by some that there should be a way to quickly identify what main is in a particular container, along with its recommended limitations. I'm not sure this needs to be manditory on personally owned rigs (though a good idea), I do think it should be on student/rental gear.

(My local DZO has had student/rental rigs embroadered with the size of the main to ensure its easily known.)

JW


piisfish

May 21, 2012, 7:50 AM
Post #75 of 92 (941 views)
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Re: [fcajump] When rigging, please do / do not... [In reply to] Can't Post

how hard ? honestly ? waw, it's just writing twice your data and dates etc (H/C and Reserve), more or less every 4 years on the AAD card, and almost never on the main. You just write down whenever you perform work on it. Like that there is a "better information" in case of resale of the gear.

If you can't write, buy yourserlf a rubber stamp, or hire a secretary. Smile


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