Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Sewing through stiffener material

 


sky4meplease  (D 30360)

Mar 6, 2012, 1:10 PM
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Sewing through stiffener material Can't Post

I have been working on a sewing project where I am sewing through two layers of Cordura sandwiching a stiffener material ( thin plastic I think ).

The machine ( Consew 199r ) is tracking all over the place, breaking needles and generally giving me heart burn trying to get a straight stitch pattern with proper thread tension.

I tried heavier needles ( 16, 18, and 20 ), played around with the thread tension, and the presser foot pressure and nothing seems to help.

I am wondering what configuration works best for this? Any and all help is much appreciated.


(This post was edited by sky4meplease on Mar 6, 2012, 1:43 PM)


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 6, 2012, 3:41 PM
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Re: [sky4meplease] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

I had the exact same issue sewing through the exact same material on my 20u..One layer of Cordura sandwiching a piece of plastic stiffener with 3/4" trim tape to top it off. I Bought a set of 'lether wedge' needles from an Industrial Sewing Machine Company here in KC, and they chewed right through it. The needles are shaped more like a ball/wedge, which more or less move the material out of the way rather than piercing through it. One I started using LW needles for thick material, I realized that there wasn't much my 20u couldn't sew through...

BTW, I envy the Consew 199r....If I had one of them or a Pfaff 138, I think I'd be a happy rigger.... Smile


mark  (D 6108)

Mar 6, 2012, 3:59 PM
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Re: [Unstable] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

@Unstable, and @sky4meplease: are these TSO'd components you are working on?

Mark


sky4meplease  (D 30360)

Mar 6, 2012, 4:53 PM
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Re: [mark] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Unstable. I was looking at that as an option but was wondering if I may have been missing something in the way of a machine adjustment. I have sewn through this configuration before on someone else machine and will probably give a shout out to them for advice as well. I didn't have this much trouble previously.

Mark. If these were TSO'd components would it make it easier to sew through? Wink


pchapman  (D 1014)

Mar 6, 2012, 5:35 PM
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Re: [mark] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmm, it sounds like we might be getting into a discussion of the types of needle tips that one is supposed to use.

On the one hand rigging sources say not to use a 'diamond' as used for leather as it cuts the material; on the other hand in non-rigging sources the 'wedge' is claimed to damage leather less because it pushes material aside -- like they say for round tips for nylon -- yet it has also been said in some places that they have a slight cutting point, it isn't to be used on woven fabric. Are Diamond and Wedge different? And what is good for tough leather or plastic may not be good for thinner nylon? So what's the compromise?

I've got some ideas but am looking forward to hearing answers!


(This post was edited by pchapman on Mar 6, 2012, 5:42 PM)


sky4meplease  (D 30360)

Mar 7, 2012, 5:50 AM
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Re: [pchapman] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

I would be interested in reading more on this. Is there any information published on the topic of needle selection and performance characteristics?


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 7, 2012, 5:54 AM
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Quote:
@Unstable, and @sky4meplease: are these TSO'd components you are working on?

Yes. But they were on a 1977 NAA Chest reserve I am rebuilding for practice for a MR exam, which has been clearly identified as unairworthy. This is all practice.


ChrisClark  (D 8433)

Mar 7, 2012, 5:58 AM
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Re: [Unstable] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

Using anything other than round point needles on any rigging work is a bad idea and there are proper solutions, needle scarf size, depth of thread channel, thread lubrication, condition of the hook etc all play part in producing a good stitch. It may just be the quality of the needles you are using. I have no problems sewing through the materials you have mentioned and I use round point needles (size 21) with my 20u. I use a LT2 twin needle for binding, I have just produced a main pin flap for a Javelin, this is made from several layers of cordura, ballistic cloth and .060 HDPE and it is fine. I have attached a link from needle manufacturer Groz Beckert, it gives you some idea why you are getting problems and a product they have developed as a solution.

http://www.groz-beckert.com/website/media/en/media_master_371_low.pdf


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 7, 2012, 6:10 AM
Post #9 of 14 (2125 views)
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Re: [ChrisClark] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Excellent post, thank you!

Clickly


councilman24  (D 8631)

Mar 7, 2012, 8:24 AM
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Re: [sky4meplease] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

Haul your head down and we'll try the various needles I have. I have a number of different sizes and point types.

And I'll show you the variation available in my hard copy Universal catalog.


(This post was edited by councilman24 on Mar 7, 2012, 8:31 AM)


Unstable  (D 28930)

Mar 7, 2012, 9:19 AM
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Re: [councilman24] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

Councilman,
I'd be interested in your opinon on using various needles for rigging applications. Do you keep your work on container systems to round nose, or do you ever use leather wedges or other types?


sky4meplease  (D 30360)

Mar 8, 2012, 6:35 AM
Post #12 of 14 (1978 views)
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Re: [Unstable] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

Groz-Beckert has twenty needle tip styles with seven of them being round or ball style and the remainder wedge, diamond, triangle or square.

https://www.universalsewing.com/...eckert#needlerecsize


jonathan.newman  (D 30644)

Mar 8, 2012, 5:23 PM
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Re: [ChrisClark] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I use round point needles (size 21) with my 20u.

+1 on using a size 21 needle. The larger needle makes a world of difference going through thick or stiff stuff.


SpeedPhreak  (D 24050)

Mar 17, 2012, 10:14 AM
Post #14 of 14 (1812 views)
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Re: [sky4meplease] Sewing through stiffener material [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have been working on a sewing project where I am sewing through two layers of Cordura sandwiching a stiffener material ( thin plastic I think ).

The machine ( Consew 199r ) is tracking all over the place, breaking needles and generally giving me heart burn trying to get a straight stitch pattern with proper thread tension.

I tried heavier needles ( 16, 18, and 20 ), played around with the thread tension, and the presser foot pressure and nothing seems to help.

I am wondering what configuration works best for this? Any and all help is much appreciated.

I just did a cover flap repair (binding tape, cordura x2, and thick plastic stiffener) with my 20U and a 120 needle. It breezed right through it. Your machine should have no problem with it at all.

Try heating the area first. I take an iron, set very low, then sandwich the area to be repaired between a couple of towels and apply the iron until the area is warm.

This may not work as well on some of the older plastics with different compounds (or if age brittled), but the newer compounds being used, particularly the Molybdenum Nylons, sew particularly well.

If that rig has older plastic for a stiffener or is warped, it may be easier to just get new and replace the whole piece...



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