Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
Apache XRW

 

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skydiverkeith

Mar 5, 2012, 2:35 PM
Post #1 of 27 (3018 views)
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Apache XRW Can't Post

Woohoo! I've got a shiny new Apache XRW on the way. I guess the old Apache already isn't the largest suit on the market...

P.S. Bite me safety Nazis!


michalm21  (Student)

Mar 5, 2012, 11:20 PM
Post #2 of 27 (2916 views)
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Re: [skydiverkeith] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

<crickets>
...
<crickets>


piisfish

Mar 5, 2012, 11:48 PM
Post #3 of 27 (2906 views)
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Re: [skydiverkeith] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

Does that version of the suit have the 3ring circus, the breakaway and reserve handles exposed ? Or are they concealed ?


dirtbox  (D 31759)

Mar 6, 2012, 5:16 AM
Post #4 of 27 (2838 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

nope - Rob Harris has had a mod done to his and now everything is outboard but otherwise the others just have the little loops on the outside of the suit connected to a rapid link which mates with the exposed park of the cable between the handles and hard housing inside the suit.


skydiverkeith

Mar 6, 2012, 5:41 AM
Post #5 of 27 (2826 views)
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Re: [dirtbox] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
nope - Rob Harris has had a mod done to his and now everything is outboard but otherwise the others just have the little loops on the outside of the suit connected to a rapid link which mates with the exposed park of the cable between the handles and hard housing inside the suit.

Yep, what he said...


normiss  (D 28356)

Mar 6, 2012, 6:07 AM
Post #6 of 27 (2806 views)
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Re: [dirtbox] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

and yet still, some people believe there is nothing inherently different about wingsuiting that should not require any specialized training.....

Unsure


skydiverkeith

Mar 6, 2012, 6:15 AM
Post #7 of 27 (2798 views)
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Re: [normiss] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and yet still, some people believe there is nothing inherently different about wingsuiting that should not require any specialized training.....

Unsure

!!! Who believes this? I wouldn't want to fly with them... CrazyCrazyCrazy


normiss  (D 28356)

Mar 6, 2012, 6:32 AM
Post #8 of 27 (2783 views)
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Re: [skydiverkeith] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole "no need for a wingsuit instructor rating because it's just another jump and you're already licensed and there's nothing different about the gear" people!

LaughLaughLaugh


skydiverkeith

Mar 6, 2012, 7:03 AM
Post #9 of 27 (2751 views)
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Re: [normiss] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The whole "no need for a wingsuit instructor rating because it's just another jump and you're already licensed and there's nothing different about the gear" people!

LaughLaughLaugh

On that subject, there was a guy from the USPA board of directors out at Skydive Dallas last weekend seeking input and recommendations on the new wingsuit coach rating. Don't know what the hell he was doing at our dropzone. Our flock is pitiful!


normiss  (D 28356)

Mar 6, 2012, 7:39 AM
Post #10 of 27 (2729 views)
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Re: [skydiverkeith] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

We have to appreciate that the USPA is actively seeking neutral opinions from the non-pissing match folks.
Cool


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Mar 6, 2012, 8:21 AM
Post #11 of 27 (2708 views)
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Re: [normiss] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
and yet still, some people believe there is nothing inherently different about wingsuiting that should not require any specialized training.....

Unsure

Be real, the Apache isn't just another wingsuit. Nobody is claiming it is and since the design changes as new models come out every Apache pilot should consider themselves a test jumper and bring that kind of experience before flying.


In reply to:
The whole "no need for a wingsuit instructor rating because it's just another jump and you're already licensed and there's nothing different about the gear" people!

There are probably very few wingsuit instructors that have enough knowledge of the Apache to be of any real assistance. A better resource would be individuals who actually fly the suits in this case mostly BASE jumpers not somebody who has one hanging in a team room un jumped.

You are using the Apache's extreme example of wingsuit complexity and rigging to sell the wingsuit instructor coach rating to a would be new flyer who would never fly the suit to begin with.... you got to be smarter than that.


normiss  (D 28356)

Mar 6, 2012, 8:26 AM
Post #12 of 27 (2702 views)
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Re: [VectorBoy] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed.
But you have stated the need for individualized training based on the gear.
Hence the need for proper structured training.

We've had enough foolish fatalities.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread....that was not my intent.


skydiverkeith

Mar 6, 2012, 8:34 AM
Post #13 of 27 (2688 views)
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Re: [normiss] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Agreed.
But you have stated the need for individualized training based on the gear.
Hence the need for proper structured training.

We've had enough foolish fatalities.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread....that was not my intent.

LOL! I wasn't aware this thread was actually about anything in particular. I just started it because I was excited about my new Apache XRW. Truth be told, someone should just delete the damn thing! Tongue


piisfish

Mar 6, 2012, 8:54 AM
Post #14 of 27 (2665 views)
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Re: [skydiverkeith] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

you still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW


VectorBoy  (F 321)

Mar 6, 2012, 9:21 AM
Post #15 of 27 (2647 views)
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Re: [normiss] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Agreed.
But you have stated the need for individualized training based on the gear.
Hence the need for proper structured training.

We've had enough foolish fatalities.

Sorry to sidetrack this thread....that was not my intent.

Negative I never stated training of any kind. The Apache design is an evolution but the factory never has control of the choice and design of rig to be used ( integrated really) with the suit. Hence every user now becomes a rigger and a test jumper of their combination of wingsuit + rig + environment for use. You are not going to find that in any course, structured or otherwise. Suits like this require a lot of respect, experience and knowledge. I doubt they are the magic ticket to doing XRW. These fall into the category not for everyone.

Regular " entry level" wingsuits are much simpler and easy to use. I could teach 10 year olds how to use them all day long...... or they can read a manual and follow a few few basic rules to stay safe. This, BTW, is the target audience for the wingsuit instructor rating not big suit jumpers.

This is off topic for an Apache thread but we train people to do CREW about once a month. The gear is VERY specialized. There are things you can't do with it. Like take it to terminal. You will use ALL of your controls and some others you don't see on regular gear like riser trim tabs or 2 to 1 handles. The deployment system can be a throwout, a pullout or combination of the two. The thing might be stowed in a bag or a tail pocket. Bottom line the gear is special.

The emergency procedures are no longer pull right, pull silver on the left. The EPs are now like 12 pages long depending on if you are wrappedSmile entangled or just in a twirly. Since you are seldom alone in a malfunction the procedure is more complex in that you have to decide WHO is going to cuttaway first or if there is knife work to be done on lines before you can cut away.

As per the BSRs we take up jumpers with a minimum of 50 jumps and give them the best damn canopy control course they will ever get. Each training session is different it is taylored to the group. You don't always get all 12 pages. Nobody is crying to BOD that we need more structured training from only certified instructors, Yet everything we teach is so much more complex than Anything wingsuit first flight related. Is it dangerous ? oh hell yeah.

In regards to wingsuit fatalities or incidents, without doing a proper root cause analysis the knee jerk reaction around here is to say better training- better trainers unless, as an example when its someone like Steve H, oh he just had a bad day.


sdctlc  (D 16437)

Mar 6, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #16 of 27 (2644 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW

Tony posted this on a FB thread that had a picture of a Apache XRW suit: "it has 4" less arm sweep, 3" higher arm ribs, a cambered airfoil and the X Bird leg, gives it more range"

Scott C.


skydiverkeith

Mar 6, 2012, 9:30 AM
Post #17 of 27 (2632 views)
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Re: [sdctlc] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
you still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW

Tony posted this on a FB thread that had a picture of a Apache XRW suit: "it has 4" less arm sweep, 3" higher arm ribs, a cambered airfoil and the X Bird leg, gives it more range"

Scott C.

Yep, and comes with the remote handles...


(This post was edited by skydiverkeith on Mar 6, 2012, 9:31 AM)


granpasc

Mar 6, 2012, 9:36 AM
Post #18 of 27 (2621 views)
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Re: [piisfish] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW

Protect shins integrated ?
http://fearlessmma.com/tag/shin-guards/


Migs  (D 31835)

Mar 6, 2012, 9:46 AM
Post #19 of 27 (2607 views)
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Re: [granpasc] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

Rock, paper, scissors, wingsuit... shin guards or not, rock will always beat wingsuit! LOL ;0)~


(This post was edited by Migs on Mar 6, 2012, 9:46 AM)


pattersd  (D License)

Mar 6, 2012, 11:35 AM
Post #20 of 27 (2552 views)
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Re: [Migs] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure scissors will win in a battle with a wingsuit too.


skydiverkeith

Mar 6, 2012, 5:20 PM
Post #21 of 27 (2469 views)
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Re: [pattersd] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm pretty sure scissors will win in a battle with a wingsuit too.

Not the plastic kiddie ones. They don't cut ripstop for shit!


medusa  (D 27526)

Mar 24, 2012, 12:42 PM
Post #22 of 27 (2115 views)
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Re: [skydiverkeith] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

We just flew the new Apache XRW and a New Prototype still in R&D.

We flew them with an JVX 63 loaded at 3.42 with no ratches. We have flown successfully an Xbird-Xwing-Apache-X2 with this configuration in the past.

Both of the suits had no issues staying with the canopy even when in brakes.
The canopy pilot unstow the breaks and the two suits had tons of range over the canopy. The canopy pilot went to half breaks and we where able to stay with him.

We did a second jump with a Velo 71 loaded at 3.0 with no ratches. Both of the suits where able to stay with the canopy even when in breaks. The two suits where able to fly and had some range to play with it.

In general, the two suits where pretty stable and had amazing pressurization and effortless pressurization even at really slow air speeds.

We will continue testing the suits and Ill keep posting what we discover. We will take the suits down to a wing loading of 2.8 and even 2.6.

Cya

JF


medusa  (D 27526)

Mar 24, 2012, 2:33 PM
Post #23 of 27 (2089 views)
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Re: [sdctlc] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
you still didn't explain the difference between Apache and Apache XRW

Tony posted this on a FB thread that had a picture of a Apache XRW suit: "it has 4" less arm sweep, 3" higher arm ribs, a cambered airfoil and the X Bird leg, gives it more range"

Scott C.

The x bird leg wing gives it better horizontal speed when flying with canopys but still has amazing apache speed when flying by itself.

The intake has change and it provide amazing pressurization. The side laterals are bigger giving it more pop. The trailing edge of the arm wing has been extended.


rockhopper

Mar 24, 2012, 5:09 PM
Post #24 of 27 (2056 views)
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Re: [medusa] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

How did you think the XRW handles and feels at the slower speeds with canopies?


medusa  (D 27526)

Mar 24, 2012, 7:17 PM
Post #25 of 27 (2035 views)
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Re: [rockhopper] Apache XRW [In reply to] Can't Post

It seem pretty stable and responsive at slow airspeeds.

Anyway, I have only done two jumps on it so is to early to form a concrete opinion.


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