Feb 24, 2012, 6:27 AM
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Hard v soft links?
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Ive just recieven my new canopy (spectre 170) and it has hard links attached to the lines. Ive not had hard links since using student kit and was just wandering what the pros and cons are or both types of link?
Feb 25, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Hard v soft links?
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Hard Links pros Easier and faster to install Snag resistant near infinite lifetime almost idiot proof
Hard links are only easier and faster if you don't mark them to allow you to confirm they haven't loosened and don't install link covers and tack them in place.
Hard links are far from idiot proof, as many have overtightened them causing cracked barrels.
(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Feb 25, 2012, 11:57 AM)
Feb 25, 2012, 12:14 PM
Post #8 of 38
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Re: [sundevil777] Hard v soft links?
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Hard Links pros Easier and faster to install Snag resistant near infinite lifetime almost idiot proof
Hard links are only easier and faster if you don't mark them to allow you to confirm they haven't loosened and don't install link covers and tack them in place.
Hard links are far from idiot proof, as many have overtightened them causing cracked barrels.
and soft links have been single looped and not tacked...it's all depends on your definition of an idiot.
(This post was edited by airtwardo on Feb 25, 2012, 12:16 PM)
Feb 25, 2012, 1:12 PM
Post #10 of 38
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Hard v soft links?
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Hard Links pros Easier and faster to install Snag resistant near infinite lifetime almost idiot proof
Soft Link Facts Cheaper for the manufacture to make Have limited jump life Caused fatalities that would not have been caused by rapide links
Soft Link Selling points Lower bulk
Pro soft link quotes that make me want to stab my ears out
"they're stronger" ...who cares? hard links are way stronger than they need to be.
"easier and faster to install" - you're high! Lets race!
EDIT: I use soft links
+1 Jarrett pretty much nailed it.
Soft links are stronger when they are new but lose strength over time and use. Rapides remain the same strength over a lifetime. Soft links have broken and caused serious problems, to be fair this could have been avoided by replacing them when they show signs of wear. Soft links are NOT easier to install, in fact compared to hard links they are kind of a pain in the ass.
I use soft links on reserves because a reserve does not get jumped much if at all so not much chance of wear and tear. Also they are more comfortable on the back.
I still use hard rapide mini links on my mains since they are plenty strong and easier to swap. Also they don't wear out. Wrap them with vet wrap and you won't ding your slider. (I use vet wrap with an upside down witch hat) but just the wrap will work fine if you like to pull the slider over your head.
Don't over tighten the barrel and they are pretty much idiot proof. I catch incorrectly installed soft links all the time, sometimes even on reserves.
Some how I doubt that George Galloway of Precision would agree with you.
He, apparently, has tested his Wrap-Its side by side with PD Slinks and finds the Wrap-Its stronger.
And then there is the thing about being strong enough. The soft links ( whatever type ) only have to carry the loads imposed upon them; anything stronger is, in my engineering opinion, a waste of materials.
And since the Wrap-Its do wrap around three times, I am thinking that they just might have better wearing/abrasion properties.
Feb 28, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Re: [chrisat13000ft] Hard v soft links?
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There's also the theory about relative failure modes.
The theory goes that a slink (or similar) will fail, if it's going to fail, on opening from the shock load. That's a relatively speaking good time for it to fail as you have time to get your reserve out.
Rapide links may fail on opening shock but leave you with a hook-like bent metal ring which still holds the lines and so passes a control check and is flown down to landing if the jumper doesn't spot the bent/broken link. The theory goes that this may then let go on finals, perhaps when a riser turn is initiated, causing you to enter into an irrecoverable malfunction at a point too low to get a reserve out.
I seem to remember there might have been an example of this some years back which generated the debate on here but that might be beer/time speaking. I therefore put this out there as no more than a theory that some propose unless anyone can point to something.
faulknerwn (D 17441)
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Feb 28, 2012, 2:21 PM
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I've heard of links bending but they always held until after landing. Most metal links have slider bumpers as well making it hard for the lines to fall off.
I do remember a fatality a few years back I'm California where a soft link failed in the middle of a swoop killing the skydiver.
I have seen rapid links fail on at least two ocasions. Eather left open of the barrels cracked. On both ocasions the lines stayed "hooked" on the end of the link till the guy landed then fell off onto the ground. Freaked them out. Should have seen Popes face.
I have also seen a slink fail. For the record it was an old daccron sewn slink and from the remaining three I think I can say that they were not built right. Outer sheath lose. He apparently did not make a habbit of colapsing his slider or pulling it bellow the links. But the point it it let go at 800 ft. As I recall that was the guy who's break lines had never been bartacked at the cascade. Main break lines pulled right out with my fingers. It was his second reserve ride of the boogie when I found it. I think he got really drunk that night.
By the way. We've been doing some destructive testing on some of our components. My home made slinks, 1500 vectran with a ring, two wraps, have been breaking around 4000 lb. These are old slinks that have seen wear and abuse. It's dependent on how you load then and how... neatly they are arranged.
There's also the theory about relative failure modes.
The theory goes that a slink (or similar) will fail, if it's going to fail, on opening from the shock load. That's a relatively speaking good time for it to fail as you have time to get your reserve out.
Rapide links may fail on opening shock but leave you with a hook-like bent metal ring which still holds the lines and so passes a control check and is flown down to landing if the jumper doesn't spot the bent/broken link. The theory goes that this may then let go on finals, perhaps when a riser turn is initiated, causing you to enter into an irrecoverable malfunction at a point too low to get a reserve out.
I seem to remember there might have been an example of this some years back which generated the debate on here but that might be beer/time speaking. I therefore put this out there as no more than a theory that some propose unless anyone can point to something.
What about the TI who was left paralyzed last year? A riser was inverted (? = twisted around). Usually, those break the little white loop on opening shock. That one held until they were at four hundred feet.
Every rigger wants to replace them along the line-set.
Yes, soft links from any brand must be replaced at reline time or sooner if needed - the soft links are exposed to slider impact during deployment which might "eat" the spectra line.
When I reline a main canopy the kit includes: Mfg. line set kit, new soft links (not for Tandem or Student mains) Line Trim chart.
The soft links like any link must be inspected at packing process.
Saving $30 might cost you big time.
Be Safe !!!
(This post was edited by RIGGER on Feb 29, 2012, 3:11 AM)
Every rigger wants to replace them along the line-set.
Yes, soft links from any brand must be replaced at reline time - the soft links are exposed to slider impact during deployment which might "eat" the spectra line.
When I reline a main canopy the kit includes: Mfg. line set kit, new soft links (not for Tandem or Student mains) Line Trim chart.
The soft links like any link must be inspected at packing process.
Saving $30 might cost you big time.
Be Safe !!!
I don't have any problem to replace them on wear basis.....
Also, from PD: "This is one of the reasons we don't recommend Slinks with tandems and student canopies. Typically those canopies are big with long lines, send the slider down quickly, and the grommets can cause this type of situation. There is very little known usage with typical sport gear in this configuration of Dacron lines and Slinks. I do know of some people doing this without any issues, but I can certainly understand how it could happen."
(This post was edited by skydiverek on Feb 29, 2012, 8:17 AM)
Feb 29, 2012, 9:16 AM
Post #24 of 38
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Re: [chrisat13000ft] Hard v soft links?
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I'm running SR-1's without issue on a 1050 lb Vectran lineset on my main which regularly sees 155 mph+ deployments with no issues. I run Wrap-it's on my reserve because that's what it came with and they have served me just fine on multiple reserve rides.
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1
