Forums: Skydiving: Instructors:
"Coach" pulls for a student!

 

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All

yoink

Feb 22, 2012, 8:52 AM
Post #26 of 105 (2958 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deisel] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
do we honestly expect a coach to bail out when his student is obviously having a problem? Would you?

ETA - I'm not saying that coaches should chase students down. They arent trained for it and its not safe. But should we look at the EP's that are currently in place for this?


You answer your own question as far as I can see.

You admit Coaches aren't trained to do anything in deploying for a student, so there's nothing they can do except deploy themselves. Any other action only introduces more risk into the scenario.

There's no new EP, or alteration to any existing EP that I can see which would change this. The only way a coach could help in this situation is to deploy for the student, which, as we've already ascertained, they're neither trained for nor allowed to do.

Yes, it'd suck bailing on someone who's having trouble, but it'd suck worse killing them because you're tying to be a hero. I'd follow my training and rely on the students EPs to kick in or at worse an AAD save.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Feb 22, 2012, 10:02 AM
Post #27 of 105 (2931 views)
Shortcut
Re: [yoink] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
do we honestly expect a coach to bail out when his student is obviously having a problem? Would you?

ETA - I'm not saying that coaches should chase students down. They arent trained for it and its not safe. But should we look at the EP's that are currently in place for this?


You answer your own question as far as I can see.

You admit Coaches aren't trained to do anything in deploying for a student, so there's nothing they can do except deploy themselves. Any other action only introduces more risk into the scenario.

There's no new EP, or alteration to any existing EP that I can see which would change this. The only way a coach could help in this situation is to deploy for the student, which, as we've already ascertained, they're neither trained for nor allowed to do.

Yes, it'd suck bailing on someone who's having trouble, but it'd suck worse killing them because you're tying to be a hero. I'd follow my training and rely on the students EPs to kick in or at worse an AAD save.

This is the scenario that scares me the most. Watching a student who cannot find their handle. There are a couple of cues... the first being point at them "pull". I think before I tracked away and dumped I would point at them and then to the reserve with altitude on my side... then I would move to tacking off and pulling..... Scary situation.


Ron

Feb 22, 2012, 10:10 AM
Post #28 of 105 (2926 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deisel] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The hypothetical that Id like to discuss some is how coaches are trained for this event. Were taught to turn, track and dump at pull time. But this is largely to get the attention of a jumper that may have lost altitude awareness. In this case the jumper was well aware that it was pull time. The coach deploying his own parachute would do nothing to correct the issue. So the question I pose is this; do we honestly expect a coach to bail out when his student is obviously having a problem? Would you?

The simple fact is that most coaches when they first get a coach rating have no business deploying for a student. They simply do not have the training and the training is above the skill level of an entry level coach.

There are TONS of things that can go wrong when you dump someone out.... It is not as simple as it sounds and is not as simple as it looks. Most coaches don't know half of the things that can happen, all they see is how easy it looks and the desire to help.

But just like you (with several hundred jumps more than a new coach) never had seen a spring loaded pilot chute and even on video you could watch several times mistakenly thought that the instructor pulled from the reserve side.... Well, things are much more difficult when it is 'live' and you only get one shot.

Simply put: Coaches are taught to get away and deploy because most do not have the skills and knowledge to pull for a student in trouble. And the coach training in no way prepares a coach for the task. If we were to adjust the experience and the training up to where they would need to be to perform this task.... You would have someone qualified to do AFF.

In fact, I think the standards for getting an AFF rating is too low.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 22, 2012, 10:25 AM
Post #29 of 105 (2917 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Ron] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

RIGGER POSTS: "This opens again the big question: Does 100 jumps makes a skydiver ready to be a coach or it should be minimum 200 + jumps & the ability to jump with a camera for training & education. "

RON POSTS: In fact, I think the standards for getting an AFF rating is too low.


Very well stated on both accounts. Thank you.


hchunter614  (B 30368)

Feb 22, 2012, 10:27 AM
Post #30 of 105 (2916 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deisel] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

The student was doing as they were trained. If you can't deploy your main, deploy your reserve. The "coach" should have let the student deploy their reserve.

What happens if this student has the same problem but with a "coach" who is not an AFFI? Will they wait for the coach to deploy for them?


ufk22  (D 16168)

Feb 22, 2012, 10:37 AM
Post #31 of 105 (2902 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ufk22] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My take on this, without getting into the gear issue, as adjustable laterals can loosen up and student gear is "one-size-fits-no-one".\
Then there is also the "2 tries, go directly to silver" that the student ignored.
But...
If this was an AFFI,
1. bad exit, took 10 seconds to get into position for the student to dock.
2. Pulled with the wrong hand while apparently holding the students arm grip. There seemed ample oportunity to get that harness grip.
The reason a coach shouldn't do this, beyond just "he doesn't have the rating", is just the way this was done.
There is a reason you should pull with the right hand while holding a harness grip at the hip with your left hand. What if the student got totally floaty right then? With the arm grip, he would have been pulled head low, pulled on to his right side, or even inverted. With the hesitation seen in the video, worst case the pilot chute might have actually gone under the "coach". Good time had by all. With a harness grip at the hip, you can keep the hips low. Plus, when there is a pilot chute delay, like this, you maintain full control over the student in a position to assist. Can't necessarily do that holding an arm grip.
To be honest, this actually looked more like a coach deployment than an AFFI.
Thankfully, just fodder for a discussion.
Sorry, just looked at the video a second time, it appears that coach/AFFI did NOT take an arm grip, I apologize on that one.
Still , what I said about an untrained coach possible doing this stands, also, don't understand grabbing the pud rather than taking a harness grip first.
Any AFFI or I-E's care to comment???


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 22, 2012, 10:50 AM
Post #32 of 105 (2902 views)
Shortcut
Re: [] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm an AFFI. But on a jump that's defined as a Coach jump, I play the role as a Coach. I stay close, and communications are not an issue normally. When they are, I dock and get the student's attention directly ("hey (smack) wake up (smile)")

Beforehand, we review the dive, and it also includes talk about things like pull time. In Coach role, I can give a pull signal to get his attention, the next cue that he needs from me is dumping in front of him.

I pretty much can't pull for him (even if I'm trained on it) at that point, now, can I?

Seems to me, that the Coach has failed in his duty if he hasn't pulled on time in this scenario.

In otherwords, if it gets so damn low, that the coach feels the needs to pull the other guy, rather than his own, then the coach already failed, and it's already too low.

Plan the dive, dive the plan. I think that's the best recipe for success. I want the dive to succeed without me needing be the hero as a result of my own mistake (failing to communicate both methods to pull in time).

If the student makes serious mistakes, then the real discussion would be after the fact about what kind of dive is appropriate next.


Some 100 jump wonder with barely 100 jumps and a fresh coach rating that barely can fall straight down himself? just don't grab the student, watch and observe, .... Unsure


Here's my list of what I'd do, as AFFI, on a Coach jump that's not normally allowed:

1 - I'll pull for him if he knocks himself unconscious, but that's a whole different scenario - (and that pull should sure as hell be a LOT higher than normal pull time). I think that this would be most people's opinion, though, AFFI qual'd or not.

2 - I'll take grips, but I don't think harness grips are necessary at this stage, so grippers/arms/nostrils/throat (kidding) - actually, this is allowed

3 - I'll catch and flip a tumbler if he's not fixing it after a sufficient observation period. But my personal deck for that is about 6-7 grand before I go get him (from 13). This one requires a very serious discussion about whether this student shouldn't be back in AFF (I know this now opens up a whole bunch of 'what if' scenarios....)

I can't think of more at this time.....


Agree the coach and the AFF minimums are too easy yet


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Feb 22, 2012, 10:53 AM)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 22, 2012, 10:57 AM
Post #33 of 105 (2894 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BIGUN] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
RIGGER POSTS: "This opens again the big question: Does 100 jumps makes a skydiver ready to be a coach or it should be minimum 200 + jumps & the ability to jump with a camera for training & education. "

oooh - here's an interesting one


Coach jump - if qualified to wear the camera? I don't have an issue with that. His job is observation, not intervention. the camera fits the description

But I don't think AFFI's should be wearing cameras on AFF jumps. You are around deploying gear, it affects your ability to fly, it can be a distraction to the student, etc etc etc etc

how's that for a transposition from expectations?


cbrown1311  (A 59401)

Feb 22, 2012, 11:31 AM
Post #34 of 105 (2868 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

Not a AFFI, just a 200 jump wonder, so take my viewpoint for what its worth....

Where I completely agree that there are risks with AFFI's wearing cameras on AFF jumps, I think there have to be exceptions for those doing AFF from 182's. Where I jump, on a hot summer day, there isn't a popsicles chance in hell a 182 could take 2 AFFI's a hefty student and an outside camera man to 12K in a reasonable amount of time. This would leave the student with no video at all, which, I think we all can agree, is a very important part of the dive debrief. I propose that AFFI's using inside video need to be even more careful with snag hazards on video setups than normal, but think that not allowing AFFI's to use inside video would result in a lot of repeated mistakes from students who, like usual, don't believe they did something wrong until they see it themselves.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 22, 2012, 11:33 AM
Post #35 of 105 (2870 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
RIGGER POSTS: "This opens again the big question: Does 100 jumps makes a skydiver ready to be a coach or it should be minimum 200 + jumps & the ability to jump with a camera for training & education. "

oooh - here's an interesting one


Coach jump - if qualified to wear the camera? I don't have an issue with that. His job is observation, not intervention. the camera fits the description

But I don't think AFFI's should be wearing cameras on AFF jumps. You are around deploying gear, it affects your ability to fly, it can be a distraction to the student, etc etc etc etc

how's that for a transposition from expectations?

1) Are you suggesting an AFF/I should wear a camera on AFF jumps, or 2) are you suggesting someone implied they should?

I don't think anyone (or a very low number of AFF/I's) would consider taking a video/camera on a student jump. In the case of the video... he was acting as Coach, therefore he had a video/camera. He did not take the camera with the intentions of acting as an AFF/I.


Rstanley0312  (D 31900)

Feb 22, 2012, 11:41 AM
Post #36 of 105 (2857 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cbrown1311] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not a AFFI, just a 200 jump wonder, so take my viewpoint for what its worth....

Where I completely agree that there are risks with AFFI's wearing cameras on AFF jumps, I think there have to be exceptions for those doing AFF from 182's. Where I jump, on a hot summer day, there isn't a popsicles chance in hell a 182 could take 2 AFFI's a hefty student and an outside camera man to 12K in a reasonable amount of time. This would leave the student with no video at all, which, I think we all can agree, is a very important part of the dive debrief. I propose that AFFI's using inside video need to be even more careful with snag hazards on video setups than normal, but think that not allowing AFFI's to use inside video would result in a lot of repeated mistakes from students who, like usual, don't believe they did something wrong until they see it themselves.

You are right... that is why they are done at 10,500 from a 182 and there is no problem having outside video. I know this because I've done outside video for an AFF out of a 182.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 22, 2012, 1:54 PM
Post #37 of 105 (2819 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cbrown1311] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not a AFFI, just a 200 jump wonder, so take my viewpoint for what its worth....

Where I completely agree that there are risks with AFFI's wearing cameras on AFF jumps, I think there have to be exceptions for those doing AFF from 182's. Where I jump, on a hot summer day, there isn't a popsicles chance in hell a 182 could take 2 AFFI's a hefty student and an outside camera man to 12K in a reasonable amount of time. This would leave the student with no video at all, which, I think we all can agree, is a very important part of the dive debrief. I propose that AFFI's using inside video need to be even more careful with snag hazards on video setups than normal, but think that not allowing AFFI's to use inside video would result in a lot of repeated mistakes from students who, like usual, don't believe they did something wrong until they see it themselves.

you don't need outside video for AFF. it's nice, but not necessary at all

and students that argue with their instructors have a more basic issue to overcome


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Feb 22, 2012, 1:55 PM)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 22, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #38 of 105 (2818 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BIGUN] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
1) Are you suggesting an AFF/I should wear a camera on AFF jumps, or 2) are you suggesting someone implied they should?

I stated it pretty clearly. I don't think you read it. or you are trying to read into it a lot more than I wrote....

A poster opened up a question about coach jumps that included a camera criteria. i just ran with it and noted my positions for camera on both types of instructor jumps.

Coach - sure, if qualified - go ahead and wear the camera

AFFI - no, he has enough to do. Or, he potentially has a lot more that can happen. leave the camera on the ground. Student wants/needs video can get outside vid, or deal without and LISTEN to his instructors.


nothing more or implied


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Feb 22, 2012, 4:11 PM
Post #39 of 105 (2782 views)
Shortcut
Re: [rehmwa] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

I went back and re-read what you wrote.

You're right.

I was over-thinking it.

My apologies.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 22, 2012, 4:28 PM
Post #40 of 105 (2773 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BIGUN] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

no apologies, you ask good questions and don't hack on people. I like that.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 22, 2012, 7:02 PM
Post #41 of 105 (2730 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deisel] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
So the question I pose is this; do we honestly expect a coach to bail out when his student is obviously having a problem?

No, I never expect a coach to bail out, I expect them to follow the dive plan and follow their training each and every time. If the plan was to turn a track, then turn and track, that's the essence of not 'bailing out', that's the coach following through on what they said they were going to do.

Regardless of what the student is doing, everything they should be doing on the bottom end requires space, and when a coach doesn't do what they're supposed to, their in the students airspace, and not helping at all.

Coaches, or any jumpers who have not spent time around students (or any jumpers, really) at pull time would not be aware of the movement that can occur during the pull seqence. Waving off, reaching and pulling can all effect the proximity and fall rate of a student. If you get 'up close and personal' with a student at pull time, it wouldn't be hard from them to drop under you during the wave off, and drive under you as they extend out and actually pull, right under you.

Coaches should do what they're trained to do. In the case of an AFF I on a coach jump, if you're going to start acting like an AFF I, that's their choice (and, I feel, their right) but they have to see it through. You can't hang out like an AFF I, and just flash the pull sign and then track off or dump when it gets too low. If you're going to make an 'executive decision', and hang out at pull time, it needs to include actually pulling for the student.

While it might seem like you should act like a coach on a coach jump, if you have the rating and feel the need, the more imporant thing is the safety of the student. I'd rather see an AFF I dump a guy out stable up above 3k, then to have him possibly tumble down low, or have an AAD fire/two-out.


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Feb 22, 2012, 8:56 PM
Post #42 of 105 (2705 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

I dont have the real life experience to really have an opinion on this, but I do personally know an AFF-I who chased an AFF student down (level 3 release dive and the guy flipped on his back IIRC) - he was diving hard and got to the student right as the guy managed to flip over and fire his reserve (as he was taught to do if he lost his instructor). The instructor came to under reserve from a Cypres fire - the reserve PC launched right into his face Shocked.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 22, 2012, 9:17 PM
Post #43 of 105 (2699 views)
Shortcut
Re: [crotalus01] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
That's right. How many more of those stories would we have if you had inexperiecned, untrained coaches also trying to 'save' a student?

Consider, for a minute, your opinion of this instructor. Hopefully it's favorable, and then consider that this could happen to him. Imagine if lesser jumpers were allowed to pull for students, and how quickly things could go wrong.

The 'real' truth behind an AFF rating is that you're there to 'save' the day. Teaching and training is good, but you could just huck a jumper out of the plane, and provided they pulled everytime, they would eventaulyl learn to fall stable and the like. I think that some branch or the military trains their freefall jumpers this way. Full altitude jumps with no instructor present (of course, this is after static line training, and I'm sure weeks of ground school).

The point is that the AFF I is there for when things get 'messy'. Student get out of control, AFF I is trained to get them under control (or dump them out). Student forgets to pull, AFF I is there to pull for them. Student has a PC in tow, AFF I is there to yank on the bridle and reach into to the pack tray to pull the bag out. Student is tumbling below pull altitude, the AFF I is there to chase them, and yes, the student who previsouly wasn't doing what they were trained, might just wake up and pull a handle or two when the AFF is right on top of them (of course, you should never get above a student, but again, things get messy).

Sometimes there are no good answers to problems presented in the sky. AFF Is and coaches are only human, and can only fix so much. For the AFF I, it's more than the coach, but they all have limits. For the AFF I, that might be 2001ft, and watching the students AAD fire shortly there after. For a choach, it's pull time when you need to get lost. Neither one likes to 'give up' when the student isn't doing well, but that's the job, and if you don't like it, don't do it.


crotalus01  (B 28932)

Feb 22, 2012, 9:49 PM
Post #44 of 105 (2691 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have 7 years in sport and about 250 jumps. When i was a noob (I mean noob in jump #'s not noob in sport - I am still WAY noob in jump #'s), I used to disagree with a LOT of what you experienced guys thought and said - I still have my doubts about some things (like camera with less than 200 jumps), but its funny how experience makes you realize the wisdom of those you previously thought were just trying to hold you back. NOW, I think anyone should think twice about their opinions until they have seen someone they care about life flighted out of the DZ, or drowning in their own blood Frown


Creep0321  (B 37935)

Feb 23, 2012, 12:08 AM
Post #45 of 105 (2679 views)
Shortcut
Re: [davelepka] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
That's right. How many more of those stories would we have if you had inexperiecned, untrained coaches also trying to 'save' a student?

Consider, for a minute, your opinion of this instructor. Hopefully it's favorable, and then consider that this could happen to him. Imagine if lesser jumpers were allowed to pull for students, and how quickly things could go wrong.

The 'real' truth behind an AFF rating is that you're there to 'save' the day. Teaching and training is good, but you could just huck a jumper out of the plane, and provided they pulled everytime, they would eventaulyl learn to fall stable and the like. I think that some branch or the military trains their freefall jumpers this way. Full altitude jumps with no instructor present (of course, this is after static line training, and I'm sure weeks of ground school).

The point is that the AFF I is there for when things get 'messy'. Student get out of control, AFF I is trained to get them under control (or dump them out). Student forgets to pull, AFF I is there to pull for them. Student has a PC in tow, AFF I is there to yank on the bridle and reach into to the pack tray to pull the bag out. Student is tumbling below pull altitude, the AFF I is there to chase them, and yes, the student who previsouly wasn't doing what they were trained, might just wake up and pull a handle or two when the AFF is right on top of them (of course, you should never get above a student, but again, things get messy).

Sometimes there are no good answers to problems presented in the sky. AFF Is and coaches are only human, and can only fix so much. For the AFF I, it's more than the coach, but they all have limits. For the AFF I, that might be 2001ft, and watching the students AAD fire shortly there after. For a choach, it's pull time when you need to get lost. Neither one likes to 'give up' when the student isn't doing well, but that's the job, and if you don't like it, don't do it.

I can only speak for the Marine Corps version of "Freefall" school. Its after going to Army Basic Airborne (2 weeks of a waste of time, and 5 low level static line jumps on a round). MMPC (The actual course name) consists of aproximately 25 jumps, from jump 1-9 you have one instructor jump with you, with video (which i found to be extremly helpful) after that, solo jumps, Drouge jumps, night jumps, night drouge, fast learning curve at the school, compared to Civilian AFF. I think like my 14th freefall jump was under drouge with aprox. 80lbs of gear, a rifle and oxygen Cool


piisfish

Feb 23, 2012, 5:17 AM
Post #46 of 105 (2650 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airtwardo] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm curious...WHY a spring P.C.?
ask JohnRich Angelic


piisfish

Feb 23, 2012, 5:26 AM
Post #47 of 105 (2646 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Deisel] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

loose fitting gloves, plus loose fitting suit, plus loose fitting harness, plus full face at 18 jumps.... that's a lot for 1 jump....
he doesn't seem to go for reserve, but for the breakaway handle, and that is once he is stood up by the deploying main


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 23, 2012, 5:58 AM
Post #48 of 105 (2635 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I'm curious...WHY a spring P.C.?
ask JohnRich Angelic

I've jumped with John, I understand why HE uses one. He's FAR from a 'student'.
Heck, I personally have over 400 jumps with a ripcord & spring-loaded PC on the main...

What I don't understand is why train someone on it that in all likelihood will never jump it again after getting off student status.

Getting rid of the hesitation is no problem, you pull your knees in and sit up, it launches clean & fast...I can't see anyone teaching a student to do that, for good reason.

So my questions stands...WHY?


theonlyski  (D License)

Feb 23, 2012, 6:11 AM
Post #49 of 105 (2633 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airtwardo] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What I don't understand is why train someone on it that in all likelihood will never jump it again after getting off student status.

Kinda like static lines? Tongue


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 23, 2012, 6:17 AM
Post #50 of 105 (2633 views)
Shortcut
Re: [airtwardo] "Coach" pulls for a student! [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm curious...WHY a spring P.C.?

Are there many DZ's that use this?

Jim There are still a few places still using them, yes. Why? well you'll have to ask each one. In the case I was speaking of, for one thing they did no AFF or had any AFF rated people there who would have experience in using HDPC's on students in FF or SL rated people with experience in teaching HDPC progression and they were doing PCA SL's as the progression. When I first showed up there was like 2 guys who wanted to move to throw out for FF students and they were shot down for a number of reasons for a few years I was told. One reason being they did not want to have to switch out PC's and two, the other camp strongly believed that students would start having no pulls if they were given a HD PC.

I chalk this up too not having been any where but in the sticks and not having trained anyone in that manner and the fact that the place had been doing it that way for years***, a few were freaking out on the though of teaching a SL student to do PRP's with the PR in the BOC and then on the first FF having a HDPC used. Again the counter answers were students were going to be firing AAD's left and right and it's too dangerous to train like that and we don't want to switch around gear.

*** I believe in not fixing what is not broken, however it was broken because they had been having long delays and totals on the FF students, their answer was not to change the deployment system to a modern one, it was to move the loop, a band aid.

I went and got one of their brand new HDPC's that had been laying around for years and hooked it up for a PCA SL (works just like a pull out) and made the club prez jump it and took video to prove not only did it work just fine, but there would be no need to change out PC's. Again this was met with how dangerous it is to let a first freefall jumper use a boc mounted HDPC and they will be firing AAD's and or dumping reserves left & right.

My answer to that was, how many times does that happen all across the USA at PVA, SDC, Spaceland, the Ranch, Z-hills, Deland, Eloy, you name it any where student gear has throw outs on them and they have done thousands of drops that way. The fact of the matter is this is safe and has been in use for a number of years and we have not seen a major spike in students going in or firing AAD's, have we.

The only other rebuff came in the form of a self proclaimed non ticketed rigging expert who started in about how bridals can wrap around and half hitch the tops of the throw outs and cause the PC to not work and you get a PC in tow, because he has seen that happen in base jumping. I guess his wisdom won out because they ended up sending all the HDPC's back to wings so they could sew on some extra bullshit webbing to the PC's that was to keep that from happening..... I'm sure the people @ wings were laughing their ass off at that. Now they are doing/using a HD PCA like I showed the prez. I have not seen the retro fitted PC's, I quit going to that dz because of the backwards thinking politics of a few of the folks running the show when it comes to modernizing into the 21st century of student operations.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Feb 23, 2012, 8:32 AM)


First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Instructors

 


Search for (options)