Forums: Skydiving: Tandem Skydiving:
Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal?

 


larrylemur

Feb 16, 2012, 11:31 PM
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Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? Can't Post

I am considering trying to become a student skydiver this summer through a nearby DZ.

I did a tandem at the same DZ a couple of years ago. On the day of the jump it looked like it was going to rain so they kind of rushed us onto the plane. When we were in the air the Tandem Master asked if we had done a ground instruction session, but no one had done this with us. He gave us some quick instructions in the plane and we did the jump. It all went pretty smoothly, but now that I have researched skydiving a bit more it seems like this was not following protocol.

I am wondering if this would be considered a big safety red flag, or if it isn't really so bad. I am a bit worried, is the fact that I still did this jump an indicator that I might not have the safety mindset required for skydiving?

The DZ seemed pretty safe and I felt very secure with the TM since he seemed very experienced. However, not really knowing anything about skydiving, I pretty much just followed what they told me to do. I realize as a student safety will be very much my responsibility so I wanted to try and get some feedback on this.

Thanks


holie  (A License)

Feb 17, 2012, 1:15 AM
Post #2 of 16 (1650 views)
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Re: [larrylemur] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome to the real world Cool.

Not everybody will agree - but everything they would have told you at the ground, you would have forgotten in the door Laugh

It's nice to be prepared. But the TM did his Job in the plane you were prepared and in good hands with that TM.

Go for it! As you asked here shows you're head up and you will ask your instructors if neccesary.


Have fun.
PS: As we say in german "It will not be eaten as hot as it is cooked"


dragon2  (D 101989)

Feb 17, 2012, 1:50 AM
Post #3 of 16 (1640 views)
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Re: [larrylemur] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

If the weather is turning, there's a choice between rushing the tandempassengers a bit, or not jumping at all (or maybe hours later).
I am talking about tandem passengers here, not tandem students who are supposed to pull the ripcord, read an alti etc, and/or are doing tandemjumps as part of a skydiving course.

Opinions may vary here, but I'm OK with rushing things a bit for passengers, especially if there's no video (I like to capture a bit of the briefing on tape). Even with video, we make it work.


It's really no big deal to do the briefing inside the plane on occasion, even though not optimal. For sure no red safety flag in my book.


obelixtim  (D 84)

Feb 17, 2012, 3:39 AM
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Re: [larrylemur] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

 Your TM was looking after himself, so by default he was looking after you too. The couple of things you really needed to do would have been the instructions he gave you in the plane.

When you fly in an aircraft you are not bolted to the pilot as you are on a Tandem.

Your solo course will prepare you to look after yourself....

Go for it....


djmarvin  (D 22292)

Feb 17, 2012, 5:41 AM
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Re: [holie] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Not everybody will agree - but everything they would have told you at the ground, you would have forgotten in the door Laugh

In my few thousand tandems I will disagree with this statement! I have found over the years that more people remember more information than most people/Instructors give them credit for. If an Instructor PROPERLY trains a student, that student will more likely remember the key points of their training. It is with this type of familiarity that we bring the most positive experiences to our students, allowing them a true glimpse into our world of skydiving. You never know which "I am only doing this once" student will turn into a skydiver for the rest of their life. If we train each one properly they are more likely to perform better, enjoy their experience more, and return to the sky to become a licensed jumper.


djmarvin  (D 22292)

Feb 17, 2012, 5:47 AM
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Re: [larrylemur] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would consider the lack of ground training to rush on a load to beat the weather as an indicator but not definitive. Head back out to the DZ and watch for a few hours or even the day. You will get to see what normally goes on. This will also give you a chance to get to know some of the other jumpers and see the community at play.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 17, 2012, 5:53 AM
Post #7 of 16 (1531 views)
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Re: [larrylemur] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am considering trying to become a student skydiver this summer through a nearby DZ.

However, not really knowing anything about skydiving, I pretty much just followed what they told me to do.

Which is what you will be doing when you start your solo training.

Solo training is a totally different world from tandem.
Rest assured, you will NOT be getting on a plane as a solo student without complete ground training beforehand...weather or no weather..


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Feb 17, 2012, 5:54 AM)


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Feb 17, 2012, 6:57 AM
Post #8 of 16 (1494 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Rest assured, you will NOT be getting on a plane as a solo student without complete ground training beforehand...weather or no weather..

LMFAO!!!! You funny man....


fcajump  (D 15598)

Feb 17, 2012, 7:21 AM
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Re: [larrylemur] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

Instructors are trained to expect (and occasionally see) students that don't remember anything, and do just what they shouldn't.

Many DZ's and instructors are trying to both keep their planes running as much as possible (for practical and financial reasons) and also want to keep your interest now that you finally got the nerve up to get this far. Weather holds are very disappointing to new jumpers.

That having been said, I also have seen tandem operations that feel this is an acceptable level of training for passengers on a regular basis.

For myself, I don't care for the joy-ride passenger take on Tandem. I prefer to approach each tandem customer as a student. They should be trained as a first jump student and that includes ground training, altimeter use, canopy flight (to include landing) and a post jump debrief with the instructor. This is not how to turn the most tandems in a day, but I believe it is the way to turn the most tandems into returning students of our sport. (As you might imagine, I am not in favor of tandem-mills.)

Was this DZ doing you a favor, or just trying to turn out as many no mater the cost... not sure. I would follow the recommendation to hang out there and see how their operations function on a more normal day.

Just my $.02
JW


stayhigh  (F 111)

Feb 17, 2012, 8:46 AM
Post #10 of 16 (1441 views)
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Re: [larrylemur] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

a lot of times, lots of Ti will agree that less you teach em the better.

Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover most of the basics in 15 min.


skyjumpenfool  (Student)

Feb 17, 2012, 11:38 AM
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Re: [stayhigh] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
a lot of times, lots of Ti will agree that less you teach em the better.

Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover most of the basics in 15 min.

Maybe, but you'd also have to agree that it would not be "Best Practice". Smile

edited to add... Point at hand, the OP left this DZ wondering if he may have been shorted? Do you really want your customers going away with that impression?
Wink


(This post was edited by skyjumpenfool on Feb 17, 2012, 11:40 AM)


dks13827  (C 9293)

Feb 17, 2012, 12:09 PM
Post #12 of 16 (1339 views)
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Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

When my daughter did a tandem, they showed the students an okay video. But if it were up to me, I would show a video ( slowed down ) with narration and telling the students to not a). stick their legs out front in freefall b). dont be reaching back at any time but especially under canopy. I have seen enough scary videos... if I were a TM I would emphasize a few points such as these before the jump.


jtiflyer  (D 27430)

Feb 17, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #13 of 16 (1326 views)
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Re: [dks13827] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
When my daughter did a tandem, they showed the students an okay video. But if it were up to me, I would show a video ( slowed down ) with narration and telling the students to not a). stick their legs out front in freefall b). don't be reaching back at any time but especially under canopy. I have seen enough scary videos... if I were a TM I would emphasize a few points such as these before the jump.

As any teacher will tell you, you never tell anybody what NOT to do (because that is exactly what they will do). If you only teach them what to do then there will be no confusion as to what their responsibilities are.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 17, 2012, 1:57 PM
Post #14 of 16 (1293 views)
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Re: [skybytch] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Rest assured, you will NOT be getting on a plane as a solo student without complete ground training beforehand...weather or no weather..

LMFAO!!!! You funny man....

Here all week. Don't forget to tip your waiter.
Tongue


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 17, 2012, 7:18 PM
Post #15 of 16 (1230 views)
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Re: [skyjumpenfool] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
a lot of times, lots of Ti will agree that less you teach em the better.

Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover most of the basics in 15 min.

Maybe, but you'd also have to agree that it would not be "Best Practice". Smile

edited to add... Point at hand, the OP left this DZ wondering if he may have been shorted? Do you really want your customers going away with that impression?
Wink


And what about if something were to go south and the 'passenger' gets a bit dented...gee the guys before & after got 'more training'....ShockedWink


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Feb 17, 2012, 11:02 PM
Post #16 of 16 (1200 views)
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Re: [stayhigh] Tandem jump with no instruction, is this a big deal? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Having said that, there is 15 min ride up., you can cover everything 3 times over in 15 min.
FIFYSmile



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