Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it

 


Poll: Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it
Unprofessional and should never happen 28 / 74%
Totally professional 3 / 8%
would never happen at our dz 5 / 13%
student got thier 85 bucks worth, so who cares 1 / 3%
it's ok if that is all the editing they got to work with 1 / 3%
38 total votes
 
stratostar  (Student)

Feb 14, 2012, 7:36 AM
Post #1 of 14 (1070 views)
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Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it Can't Post

While searching the net for some keywords I kept seeing tandem videos on youtube showing up in the search. Being a jumper and video flyer for a number of years, I watched one. It was your standard TDM vid, not the best work ever, but standard for a lot of places.... until the canopy deployment.

Once the canopy deployed the video had a rewind recorded in it back to the exit so the exit and dive could be shown again. At first thought, I was thinking must have been hurting for video people that jump and it was a one of a kind, however I clicked on another video from the same dz and yet again the same thing over & over & over for most all videos going out the door. these are uploaded by the person who paid 85 bucks or more for it.

In today's day & age even a cheap videonics or panosonic JVX board can be found on ebay for cheap, hell Craig's list has G4 & G5 macs for under 300 bucks these days that would allow for nice slo mo's and clean professional looking edited videos to leave the door for those too cheap to go NLE.

So how many of you vidiots would send every video out the door with recorded rewinds in your dvds? (by rewind, I mean where you see the pixels and tape marks recorded as the tape based camera is run backwards via camera remote and then played back again)

I guess I could understand if we were still in 1990 and all, but hardly what I would call as advertised as professional video services for 85 bucks.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 14, 2012, 9:11 AM
Post #2 of 14 (1018 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I guess I could understand if we were still in 1990 and all, but hardly what I would call as advertised as professional video services for 85 bucks.

Not even in 1990. They still had a think called the 'pause' button back then. Pause the recording, rewind the source tape, and then resume the recording when your desired scene is back on the screen.

Back when I used to dub videos straight from my camera onto a VHS tape, I would even go to the trouble of turning off my camera just after the tandem canopy would open, but before I would roll off my back to deploy. It made for a seamless transition to the next shot, which was of the tandem canopy coming in for a landing.

There's no excuse for that type of thing at any time. Even if you forget the money, how about taking a little pride in your work?


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 14, 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #3 of 14 (985 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

I know what you mean.... I was very surprised to find so many videos done like this and being sold for 85 bucks in modern times. Like you we used to use the pause. Then we hit the big time and got a videonics board so you freeze frame and do a A/B roll to the re-exit shot as well as a A/B roll for the slo-mo shots.

I just saw 10 G5's on CL here local for 275 each... so with imovie so easy to use I can't understand how or why someone would allow such shitty work to leave the door of their operation, like I'm talking about. @ 275 you only need to sell a couple videos to get into the 21 century.


(This post was edited by stratostar on Feb 14, 2012, 10:37 AM)


jtval  (D 26340)

Feb 14, 2012, 4:40 PM
Post #4 of 14 (894 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Yea Perris has ben doing that for years. LOL

(for those who think I am serious, you're a fool)


Could be a small dz with no experience and they got the video on the dvd/vhs the only way they could.


Poor excuse but that's the only reason I could find somewhat acceptable. I'd be embarrased.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 14, 2012, 5:09 PM
Post #5 of 14 (887 views)
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Re: [jtval] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Could be a small dz with no experience and they got the video on the dvd/vhs the only way they could.


Poor excuse but that's the only reason I could find somewhat acceptable. I'd be embarrased.

Not even close to acceptable. Let's say your only option is to plug the camera into a DVD burner (if that is even possible) and you have one 'take' to dump it to DVD.

In that case, you shoot the video to match technology. Pick you shots and set them up so you can watch it as one presentation (as much as possible). I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to shut their camera off in freefall like I did, but aside from that you can shoot a clean video that lends itself to dubbing in one take.

I used to my own edits and packing between loads, so my goal was to shoot a clean video that I could set up to record, and then go pack while it was dubbing. I didn't need to be there to cut or trim anything, just hit record, and then go pack for 4 minutes.

Even now, I've had an editor handling that for me for ove 10 years, but it's very rare that they need to do any 'editing' on my footage. It became a habit to shoot it clean, and that's just how I do it. I don't shut the camera off in freefall anymore, but only because the one 'cut' they put into every video is a fade from the canopy opening to the canopy coming in for a landing, so it doesn't matter if that portion of the video is 'clean'.

It's just apathy. When I think about the shit equipment and set-ups I've dealt with over the years, the one thing that was never shit was that we always tried to get the best product possible with what we had. How about 8mm (not even Hi8) and a mono VCR (no stereo sound for us)? No digital anything, no effects and sound only coming out of one speaker, but we still made the effort to make it as good as possible. What we would have given for digital video and computer editing. Come to think of it, we gave $1000's of dollars buying VX2000's and building Sony Viao editing stations, all to just dumb it down and record it all to VHS.

It's just a clear sign of who's there to do the job right, and who's there to just make some money.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Feb 14, 2012, 5:16 PM
Post #6 of 14 (884 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's just apathy. When I think about the shit equipment and set-ups I've dealt with over the years, the one thing that was never shit was that we always tried to get the best product possible with what we had. How about 8mm (not even Hi8) and a mono VCR (no stereo sound for us)? No digital anything, no effects and sound only coming out of one speaker, but we still made the effort to make it as good as possible. What we would have given for digital video and computer editing. Come to think of it, we gave $1000's of dollars buying VX2000's and building Sony Viao editing stations, all to just dumb it down and record it all to VHS.

It's just a clear sign of who's there to do the job right, and who's there to just make some money.


I disagree.
Sometimes, it's a matter of not knowing the difference, and not having enough access to information to know what they're doing incorrectly.
However, with YouTube etc, everyone should have a pretty good idea.

That said, just today I was teaching someone whose DZO insists on:
-10-12 minute videos
-Rewinding to exit (a repeat is great, especially in slow motion, IMO)
-Long canopy flight

And they are using NLE software to do this. Apparently there are some DZO's that are still stuck in the "old world" rut.


davelepka  (D 21448)

Feb 14, 2012, 5:26 PM
Post #7 of 14 (882 views)
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Quote:
I disagree.
Sometimes, it's a matter of not knowing the difference, and not having enough access to information to know what they're doing incorrectly.
However, with YouTube etc, everyone should have a pretty good idea.

I disagree with your disagree, mostly for the reasons you stated above.

Between youtube, and the availability of video cameras to everyone on earth, video editing, the techniques and technology are very available to anyone halfway interested in learning. I used to buy copies of 'VideoMaker' magazine to learn about editing and new equipment because it was all I had.

Just to be clear, I'm not crying about the 'bad old days', just illustrating the lengths some of us will go to in order to 'do better'. These days, it takes 1/10th of the effort to do 80% better, and when people can't make that 'investment' for that type of 'return', it leaves me with that one word in my mind, apathy.

Quote:
That said, just today I was teaching someone whose DZO insists on:
-10-12 minute videos
-Rewinding to exit (a repeat is great, especially in slow motion, IMO)
-Long canopy flight

Nothing wrong with that, if that's what he wants. How they reach those goals is another story. Imagine you gave those guidelines to Norman Kent, what do you think his video would look like? That's a lopsided comparison for sure, but imagine if you gave those guidelines and someone elses footage to Norm, we both know the end product would still be top notch.

Like a lot of things in skydiving photography, it's about making the most out of what you have available. If it's little available light on a 'late' sunset jump, or a student who's clearly screaming in fear all the way down, you make the most of it. If it's low tech editing equipment or less than 'conventional' requirements from the management, again, make it work.

Rewinding the source video while your finished product is recording isn't making anything work.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Feb 14, 2012, 9:30 PM
Post #8 of 14 (831 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I used to buy copies of 'VideoMaker' magazine to learn about editing and new equipment because it was all I had.

I'll submit that you're one of the 1%Tongue


jtval  (D 26340)

Feb 14, 2012, 9:40 PM
Post #9 of 14 (828 views)
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Re: [davelepka] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

My first video edits were done using 2 vcr/dvd players, a stereo and a camera.

The PAUSE theory can be seemless if done properly but, it's obviously a PITA.

NOWADAYS, you're right, it's unacceptable.
But, I was leaning more toward the side of ignorance in the editor.

While, even ignorance is not acceptable, the "doing it the best I can" Is the acceptable part.

While I find it hard to believe that people in our sport don't have access to the internet, I can't phathom that someone KNOWS better but doesn't give a shit.


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 15, 2012, 5:59 AM
Post #10 of 14 (772 views)
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Re: [jtval] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I can't phathom that someone KNOWS better but doesn't give a shit.

I find hard to believe that a camera person who has been doing this for at least 4 years now and most likely longer, has not seen a real professional video and or talked to other camera people, maybe even seen other editing set ups at another dz or viewed this forum, and not be able to know what they are doing is shit work and unprofessional.

Then there is dz owner side of the coin. It's their business, I know for a fact this dzo has been to PIA and other operations in different states where they do a mass volume of tdm's and videos. With each and every dvd that walks out the dz's door being a "short commercial" for their business, I can't understand how or why anyone would allow this to go on for many years.

Personally I find there is no excuse at all for this when advertising a professional product and charging 85 bucks for it. To me it shows the camera person cares little for doing a professional job or the end product, it shows they only care for the pay. They care so little in fact they are not reinvesting into real equipment to do the job the right way, they have had 4 yrs or more to do so. Same can be said of the dzo.

I just looked up on ebay a videonics mx 1 board, they still sell for the 400 to 600 bucks range, kind of a joke considering a very powerful G5 mac with imovie can be had for less then 300 bucks, that will run circles around a MX1 board. So again living in the sticks under a rock is no excuse for ripping off people for 85 bucks by giving them a jr high school production, but advertising a industry standard product.


tonyhays  (D 26336)

Feb 15, 2012, 12:03 PM
Post #11 of 14 (731 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Got a link to one of these vids?


Mickochet  (D 26656)

Feb 15, 2012, 7:05 PM
Post #12 of 14 (679 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Pinnacle is way cheaper and easy to use.


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 15, 2012, 8:29 PM
Post #13 of 14 (660 views)
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Re: [Mickochet] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Pinnacle is way cheaper and easy to use.

You have to a machine to run it on first. Here were talking about people (not just the dz in question) who are too cheap to even make an attempt to "do it right" buy investing in 1990's basic editing equipment to do the job, hell I would buy that shit now myself today, but then again I would record a rewind into the product. Back before computer editing became in fashion, most everyone used a mixing board of some kind, an MX 1 was a high end board and based on ebay prices it still is, I wouldn't buy it today!

Quote:
Pinnacle is way cheaper and easy to use.

So your saying Pinnacle is easier to use a cheaper to buy then a "turn key" G5 mac with ilife suitehttp://charlotte.craigslist.org/sys/2784306645.html that is ready to produce when you plug it in and in 30 mins or less I could teach a 5th grader how to use it. All simple import and then drag and drop and simple typing and sliders, export to dvd.... That would be a low end and considered out dated by most computer nerds, unit.

Like I said, (Pinnacle) you have to have a machine to run it on first, so how much will a PC cost to run it and how much will the software run? I don't know Pinnacle, please explain how its going to be cheaper, then the linked G5?


(This post was edited by stratostar on Feb 15, 2012, 8:31 PM)


Mickochet  (D 26656)

Feb 17, 2012, 9:20 AM
Post #14 of 14 (548 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Selling Tandem videos with recorded rewind in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Pinaccle can be purchased for $99 and just about everybody already has a PC. If you look back I said that pinnacle was easy I did not say that it was easier. However if someone is a PC user then pinnacle might be easier than having them buy an Apple and relearning how to use a computer at the same time. And before you get into the whole Apple vs PC thing I own and use both.


(This post was edited by Mickochet on Feb 17, 2012, 9:20 AM)



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