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I have had two canopies out and...

 


Poll: I have had two canopies out and...
Biplane to landing 14 / 25%
Side-by-side to landing 4 / 7%
Biplane and chopped 7 / 13%
Side-by-side and chopped 12 / 22%
Alternating configurations (landable/kept) 2 / 4%
Alternating configurations (maybe but chopped) 2 / 4%
Downplane - fixable 0 / 0%
Downplane - chopped 7 / 13%
beyond F'ed!! - chopped 4 / 7%
landed a ball of Sh!t and came out of it somehow 3 / 5%
55 total votes
 
fcajump  (D 15598)

Feb 9, 2012, 12:36 PM
Post #1 of 23 (1831 views)
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I have had two canopies out and... Can't Post

I'm sure I missed some configurations, but make your best to classify.

THEN PLEASE - indicate:
Which canopy in front/first.
Canopy Sizes
Exit weight

Other factors that might have influenced your actions.

JW

PS - there is no such thing as a perfect plane, pilot, parachute, instructor or DZ Poll. So until then we'll just have to take our chances with what we have.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Feb 9, 2012, 12:39 PM
Post #2 of 23 (1813 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Biplane - Chopped
Main in front - Spectre 230
Reserve in back - Fury 220
Exit weight: 254
No RSL

Main released without complications.

Down-wind hazards, slow decent rate and wind speed and low forward air speed were factors in choosing to chop.

JW


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 9, 2012, 2:53 PM
Post #3 of 23 (1719 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Para Commander & 26' Navy Conical.

Was pretty sure it wasn't gonna down-plane ...so I kept 'em both. Angelic


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Feb 9, 2012, 4:06 PM
Post #4 of 23 (1660 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Jim,

+1 Tongue

JerryBaumchen

PS) Now for the question of the day: What the H*** are those?


monkycndo  (D License)

Feb 9, 2012, 4:39 PM
Post #5 of 23 (1632 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Front: Sabre170
PDR176
Exit weight 200lb

Spooked my cypres after a low pull. Started out as side-by-side that went into a biplane.
Had toggles unstowed before I knew reserve was out. Used very gentle toggle input to steer to landing area. Landed both.


JohnRich  (D License)

Feb 9, 2012, 4:40 PM
Post #6 of 23 (1632 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Total malfunction at pull time. Deployed 24' round milsurp Jayval reserve, which inflated fine. THEN the 24' round Paracommander finally decided to deploy. As it inflated it rose up behind me and put tension on the risers, so I pulled my R3's to release it. Landed through a dead orange tree. Swarmed by fire ants living under the dead tree.


(This post was edited by JohnRich on Feb 9, 2012, 4:41 PM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 9, 2012, 5:08 PM
Post #7 of 23 (1600 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Front: Triathlon 190
Rear: Raven II (218)
Exit weight 210

Spooked my cypres after a low pull.
Had toggles unstowed before I knew reserve was out. Used very gentle toggle input to steer the main to a landing area. Landed with last-possible-second radical turn to avoid a palm tree and landed literally a tip-toe stand-up that would have hardly broken an egg...3, maybe 4 ft from the tree.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Feb 9, 2012, 5:19 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Feb 9, 2012, 6:52 PM
Post #8 of 23 (1562 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

No option for "Canopy Transfer before it developed further." Smile

Main: Precision Eclipse 365
Reserve: Precision TR375
Exit weight: ~450lbs.


(This post was edited by diablopilot on Feb 9, 2012, 6:54 PM)


wildcard451  (D License)

Feb 9, 2012, 8:03 PM
Post #9 of 23 (1535 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Main Sab2 170
Reserve Raven 181 (I think)
Exit weight 250?

Hop and pop from 3k. Grabbed a rig with a student Cypres in it. Didn't turn it off. Never made any aggressive inputs. I think it was a 90 that did it. Turns out I got just over firing speed. Landed it with gentle input on the Front canopy.

Lesson learned.


piisfish

Feb 10, 2012, 1:48 AM
Post #10 of 23 (1449 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No option for "Canopy Transfer before it developed further." Smile

Main: Precision Eclipse 365
Reserve: Precision TR375
Exit weight: ~450lbs.
dang, you sure don't look 450lbs. Must be the heavy bones AngelicTongue


MasterMichael

Feb 10, 2012, 3:32 AM
Post #11 of 23 (1431 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Long pilot chute in tow, pulled reserve without cutting away which led to a nasty entanglement. Untied 257 tension knots and cut away on a windy New Years Day 20 years ago, with about 40 jumps experience at the time. Luckily enough I had enough common sense to initiate deployment at an altitude high enough so that no one on the ground could hear me screaming, "Save me Jesus!" Also, luckily enough, I had the good judgement to jump on a day that was windy enough to carry me far away from the DZ so that no one on the ground could hear me screaming, "Save me Jesus!" during the wild ride and landing on a 26' Navy Conical.

240 ft^2 Strato-Cloud main
26' Navy Conical (with sea cups)
180 lb exit weight

Other factors that influenced my actions:
I will probably go to hell for not going to church every Sunday for the rest of my life, as I promised Jesus I would. Luckily enough, I am sure there will be plenty of skydivers there for the same reason. I hope that they all bring the beer they owe...


glh  (D 26677)

Feb 10, 2012, 4:41 AM
Post #12 of 23 (1403 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Main-Stiletto 135

Reserve- PD 126

Exit Weight 220

Had pilot chute in tow and pulled reserve.Both canopies out at same time main down-planed and I chopped.


piisfish

Feb 10, 2012, 5:18 AM
Post #13 of 23 (1389 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

my 2 out is different from all you proposed.
Flying reserve overhead. Trailing main behind, with a helmet entangled in the main lines.
Not choppable because the reserve went up through the lines of the main.

Main : Safire2 139
Reserve : PD-R146
Exit weight 85kg


fcajump  (D 15598)

Feb 10, 2012, 5:35 AM
Post #14 of 23 (1374 views)
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Re: [piisfish] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

1. glad you're here to talk about it... Smile
2. see disclaimer about "no such thing as a perfect poll" Tongue
3. SH!T... um... was the helmet that was entagled with the main lines yours? Were you still wearing it?

I guess its a matter at that point of keep things as stable as possible until you land.

I guess you could have tried cutting main lines, but again... it its stable you don't want to destablize it...

See #1!!
JW


piisfish

Feb 10, 2012, 5:42 AM
Post #15 of 23 (1372 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
3. SH!T... um... was the helmet that was entagled with the main lines yours? Were you still wearing it?

I guess its a matter at that point of keep things as stable as possible until you land.

I guess you could have tried cutting main lines, but again... it its stable you don't want to destablize it...
thanks
yes, my helmet, and no I had ditched it
no time to cut through lines when the Cypres fires to enable a reserve deployment, and the reserve PC needs to find its way through the main lines... and when the reserve flies through the mess, hits the main dbag to deploy the main Tongue

I guess you didn't see the video. It is in the Incidents forum, thread is Last night a Cypres saved my life. Link to the video is close to the end


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 10, 2012, 7:24 AM
Post #16 of 23 (1336 views)
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Re: [MasterMichael] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"Save me Jesus!" during the wild ride and landing on a 26' Navy Conical.
LaughLaughLaugh

In reply to:
240 ft^2 Strato-Cloud main
26' Navy Conical (with sea cups)
180 lb exit weight
In reply to:
I see your problem right there.
LaughLaugh

Well, better than the Star with ropes and rings anyway.
ShockedAngelic


dragon2  (D 101989)

Feb 10, 2012, 1:56 PM
Post #17 of 23 (1266 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

My 50th jump, I had a FXC fire on opening @ 2500 feet.
Skymaster 230 main, brakes unstowed, flying in front of a PD253R.
Exit weight at the time was 150lbs.

At 1000ft the canopies started to downplane. I chopped when the main was at a bigger than 45o angle, but less than 90 - I wasn't going to wait for it to build up speed. The main departed quickly and cleanly (even though I didn't know to undo the RSL). I landed the reserve uneventfully.

I was flying very gentle, staying above the DZ. I think they eventually downplaned because I had the brakes unstowed and the main was smaller than the reserve, hence flying faster forward.


rrmtopo  (C License)

Feb 12, 2012, 11:35 AM
Post #18 of 23 (1109 views)
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Re: [JohnRich] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting to see there is more than one Para Commander/reserve double out there. First clear & pull for me:
Arch, look, reach, pull, check.....saw my pilot chute doing it's job without a anything attached to it. Deployed reserve which dislodged PC from bag and started coming up behind while 26' reserve was going down in front. Since the old single point cutaway was used the webbing started unwrapping so I ended up hanging by the risers of the main in each of my hands with the reserve straight out in front. Had the altitude so I let go of the main & swung under the reserve. Welcome to skydiving.


jsaxton  (D 26818)

Feb 12, 2012, 7:30 PM
Post #19 of 23 (1055 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

"I have two canopies out and" ........ I feel like an idiot


skyguyscott  (D 13458)

Feb 12, 2012, 9:17 PM
Post #20 of 23 (1029 views)
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Re: [jsaxton] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll repost this from an earlier thread. My stiletto was 107 at the time, and I have forgotten what the reserve was at the time; i believe a 130 or 113, i don't recall exactly.

FWIW, Over the last 25 years in the sport, I have now had 3 two-out jumps; here is my own experience.

The first time I was doing CRW with a buddy of mine, we had entered a two-man downplane on purpose -- we were young then and took it low, I'd say we broke at 500' or so. When we let go, his foot brushed enough on my reserve cable to fire it. I felt the reserve come off my back. My first instinct was to immediately cut-way, because, in my first jump course, that is what I had been instructed to do (however, in those days, FJS were given round reserves). I hesitated to cut away because I looked for my reserve but could not see it. Unbeknownst to me at the moment, because of the way sub-terminal speed, the reserve fell below me, and the free bag was slowly twisting underneath. When it finally got pulled off, my reserve started to inflate and I entered my own downplane just before I impacted in a muddy cornfield. From break-off to impact was maybe 7 seconds total time. Had I cutaway my main immediately, its likely my reserve may not have had time to inflate. As it was, I suffered a spiral fracture of one of my vertebrae and a nasty sprained ankle, but being young, I healed quickly and was back jumping four weeks later. That was with a Cruslite main and a Raven II reserve, for you old-timers.

Years later, my second time, I had a hard, low pull (never tell a crazy buddy you will get his opening on video), and here is the interesting thing, my AAD fired (above it's set firing time, due to the fact that when my main opened about 1700' or so, as I swung under, my ADD immediately swung out of my burble and felt a dramatic increase in pressure. I did not feel it fire. I was flying under my main (a Stiletto) and trailing my reserve pilot chute. It was only when I did a 90 turn that it caught enough air to pull the freebag out of the tray. The next thing I knew, I felt a tug and looked up at a bi-plane. Now, at this point, none of these studies had been done yet and no one knew exactly what to do. I briefly tried to gestimate what might happen with what was then a radically new high performance main and a more traditional reserve, when, with my previous experience coming to mind, decided to fall back on my first jump training and I chopped the main. Luckily, (and I was) it cleared without incident and I landed my reserve. The lesson here is that people do tend to fall back on their last level of training rather than figure out something on the spot.

The last 2-out adventure, a tandem student pulled the reserve handle on me during main deployment. I knew immediately this could be very, very bad. Luckily, as my reserve and main started off going into a nice side-by, I chopped it and all ended well.

What we tell FJS stays with them for many years later. I have been more lucky than smart, and worn out my guardian angels by now. There may come a time when you are in a situation, follow the recommended procedures correctly, and still have a bad day. There are no guarantees in this sport, or in life for that matter. But these are the best recommendations we have, and by trial and experience found them the most effective in most situations. And no one yet knows the best thing to do in a complete entanglement, so we don't teach it in the FJC.


diablopilot  (D License)

Feb 13, 2012, 3:10 AM
Post #21 of 23 (982 views)
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Re: [piisfish] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
No option for "Canopy Transfer before it developed further." Smile

Main: Precision Eclipse 365
Reserve: Precision TR375
Exit weight: ~450lbs.
dang, you sure don't look 450lbs. Must be the heavy bones AngelicTongue

Yeah, gotta cut the carbs. Smile


dgrabowski  (D 23648)

Feb 13, 2012, 10:40 AM
Post #22 of 23 (914 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Biplane - landed in a tree in a forest.

Details (and plenty of criticism - gotta love dz.com) here: http://www.dropzone.com/...rum.cgi?post=1157059


angryelf  (D License)

Feb 13, 2012, 12:48 PM
Post #23 of 23 (870 views)
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Re: [fcajump] I have had two canopies out and... [In reply to] Can't Post

PD R 160 fired by AAD at 750 ft. Was flying a Katana 135 at the time. Reserve became "dominant" canopy almost as soon as it inflated. The main settled to the right hand side, brakes were released, it flew like a kite, had very little pressure on risers. As I had to land in 10mph winds, I wanted to land into the wind, I needed to do a 180 deg turn and was pretty sure I would down plane the main if I did such an agressive move. Was also concerned about the size difference of the canopies, so I cut away the main (learning point here-I was jumping a bungie/ball/rubber band on my reserve flap to stow the slider. This had to be manually cleared once the 3 rings released, something to think about-I now jump a removeable slider...) Once I had the 3 rings cleared, slider stow off the Reserve flap I held the fully inflated main by the risers in my right hand. It was suprisingly "light" and very easy to hold for approx 1-2 sec. The main left cleanly, unstowed my reserve brakes, did a braked 180 deg turn and landed safely into the wind.

If the AAD had fired 1 sec later (I was reaching to bury a front riser when it happened)-things might have been different....

-Harry



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