Forums: Skydiving: Instructors:
Can "experience" be a bad thing?

 

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popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 2, 2012, 7:42 PM
Post #51 of 63 (627 views)
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Re: [Chris_K] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...Too often student are just told "ride the beachball" without even being walked through the step by step of how to make that happen. If you only tell them somethign they will never learn it properly in a physical sport.

Too often I simply see students in the air with there ass pushed out and dropping there knees to "ride the beachball" as they were never taught how to do it properly.

Unfortunately I still see this on bigways with fair experiecned jumpers that they panic, push the ass out and drop there knees, trying to get into the "beachball" position and they simply fall away faster.

...and it's sad for the students. It's just one more pointer to the quality of coaching and instruction they are getting nowadays.
Unsure
I hope, believe, you are helping them get it right, eh?
Smile

For the "experienced" guys...it's maddening!
We were talking earlier about "old school"..."the big X" and many still stick with that having never learned anything more efficient.


Pablo.Moreno  (C 13216)

Feb 2, 2012, 8:41 PM
Post #52 of 63 (621 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the best balance would be that each new jumper and old jumpers should LISTEN at each other and try to understand what they are being told by either. Personally I only have 535 jumps, and I jump with people with 5000 and have been around for 13 years and others with 2100 that have been around since before I was born.

I am always reading, watching the right videos, going to courses and actually listen and process the information I get from those. Besides I analyze on new techniques for canopy piloting and freeflying. I am also working on getting my rigging ticket, so I try to stay up to date with service bulletins and such.

At our dropzone, we all listen to each other. Sometimes we yell the big GTFO specially when someone is talking out their ass, and other times we listen to whoever is talking since they might be giving a good information can help all of us.

Best example, I am used to bailing out on any kind of formation at 4500 to 5000 feet on anything bigger than a 3 way, this old timer yell at me because I left at 5k, and after explaining that I want to have enough space on my canopy that if a malfunction happen I have enough time to deal with it. After that, he understood the REASON why I was doing it and with a smile on his face he call me a pussy and we laugh and kept jumping.

Another example, I was freeflying with a coach in a boogie, at about 5000 feet the coach tells me to dock, my dytter was going off and I double check, then he give me the signal again and now I was at 4500, I shake my head went into belly, track and pull. He realized I went to belly, so he did the same and he pulled on time that his cypress didn't fire. He had about a minute of canopy time =S. He changed helmets and didn't turn on the dytter.

The best way to communicate is with the truth and explaining your basis behind your idea, If someone is talking to me and use the old, I have over 1000 jumps and I know what I am talking about, I walk away.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Feb 3, 2012, 7:57 AM
Post #53 of 63 (585 views)
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Re: [Pablo.Moreno] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

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...now I was at 4500, I shake my head went into belly, track and pull. He realized I went to belly, so he did the same and he pulled on time that his cypress didn't fire. He had about a minute of canopy time....

Anyone who can't be alerted to an altitude issue at 4500 feet and get a canopy out before getting close the AAD firing window shouldn't be a coach. Even in a head-down position it doesn't take that long to transition to a belly-to-earth position, clear the air above, and pull.

Sounds like the guy that was coaching you needed a coach as well.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 3, 2012, 8:42 AM
Post #54 of 63 (575 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Give them the basics and when they can demonstrate those skills, teach them more advanced techniques.

this is a good comment - and a lot of what I see pertinent to the topic has to do with advanced techniques

someone mentioned back about how 4 way techniques are always evolving and the obsolete techniques continue to be pushed - even when someone is shown a new way to do things, it's sometimes easier to stick with what we were taught and are comfy with rather than continue to stay current

I suspect the first time a double vert block move (instead of flat) was done in comp it raised a big stir!!!

Mantis vs boxman fits the discussion really well too.
Daffy vs straddle in FF
some of the head up body positions are pretty different and effective compared to the straight sit I was shown back around 1990

ooh, SIT SUITS, or even "you should learn sitflying with big tops to make it easier" - I believe that's detrimental and builds bad habits. but that's just me - I'm also the guy that likes to get newbies to full size booties and mantis as soon as they are comfy and stable (around the A license point is nice)

Consarn it! I jump belly down frog modified with no booties and no inside grippers...and that's how I LIKES it and that's how I COACH it TongueTongueLaugh


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Feb 3, 2012, 8:45 AM)


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 3, 2012, 8:49 AM
Post #55 of 63 (571 views)
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Re: [chuckakers] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Anyone who can't be alerted to an altitude issue at 4500 feet and get a canopy out before getting close the AAD firing window shouldn't be a coach. Even in a head-down position it doesn't take that long to transition to a belly-to-earth position, clear the air above, and pull.

Sounds like the guy that was coaching you needed a coach as well.

this one got to me also - I think the poster was projecting his own mental issues with being uncomfortable with deployment altitudes on the coach's situation (reference the deployment altitude thread)

or, as you said, the coach needs a bit more confidence and skill to get stable, slowed down and deploy

seriously - 4500 is a very decent FF breakoff - I wonder what the coach was doing?

and, with some canopies, a 1 minute ride does NOT automatically indicate a low opening - that kinda depends on what the pilot does after a the opening - even a very brisk and clean opening.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Feb 3, 2012, 8:51 AM)


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 4, 2012, 3:26 AM
Post #56 of 63 (534 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Consarn it! I jump belly down frog modified with no booties and no inside grippers...and that's how I LIKES it and that's how I COACH it TongueTongueLaugh
LaughLaughLaugh
LaughLaughLaugh

Frog...brings back memories.
LaughLaughLaugh

Then - Fall rate: Big/small
Now - Fall rate: Arch/de-arch

I still frog it quite often...probably much more than I should. It sure looks funny on video these days...especially when you're wearing white gloves and shoes.
LaughLaugh


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 4, 2012, 8:45 AM
Post #57 of 63 (509 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
We were talking earlier about "old school"..."the big X" and many still stick with that having never learned anything more efficient.


In reply to:

Hey if it works...don't fix it! TongueSly


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 4, 2012, 2:33 PM
Post #58 of 63 (493 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey! I bet I can make this carb mo' bettah.
(tinker, tinker, tinker)

WTF?
(scratching head)
Why won't my car start?


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Feb 4, 2012, 11:20 PM
Post #59 of 63 (474 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hey! I bet I can make this carb mo' bettah.
(tinker, tinker, tinker)

WTF?
(scratching head)
Why won't my car start?

Exactly. If it works ... don't fix it.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Feb 6, 2012, 6:46 AM
Post #60 of 63 (428 views)
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Re: [BobMoore] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Exactly. If it works ... don't fix it.

exactly, like belly reserves.

and round mains

and big puffy jumpsuits

Tongue


Chris_K  (C 3228)

Feb 6, 2012, 9:38 AM
Post #61 of 63 (407 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
[replyI hope, believe, you are helping them get it right, eh?
Smile

Damn right! It drives me nuts to see this. Its even more frustrating when theres a ton of you waiting in a perfect formation and one guy goes low when there no reason to do so. Learn to cup the air and slow down, not push your ass up. :)


BobMoore  (D 13136)

Feb 6, 2012, 2:05 PM
Post #62 of 63 (376 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Exactly. If it works ... don't fix it.

exactly, like belly reserves.

and round mains

and big puffy jumpsuits

Tongue

Belly reserves morphed into back reserves for comfort and cosmetic reasons, not because they were better or worse.

Round mains became square mains because they were more responsive, and more fun.

It took a while for skydivers to decide that the better control with tight jumpsuits outweighed the supposed benefits of longer freefall times.

Two of the three above were better with the changes, so "fixing it" was a good choice.


aarco  (D 20876)

Feb 16, 2012, 1:23 PM
Post #63 of 63 (325 views)
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Re: [Rstanley0312] Can "experience" be a bad thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

some people can communicate controle through ruff air - heat and wind - without braking - in that manor - wrather body and harness - and seeing the wind pattern - some older jumpers weather the physical from bride, jump the smaller stuff and see into the spirit of the flare but deem at feet placement - I don't think its their fault- there is some mystacism about it - if thats how you spell that - seeing details in a tunnel teaches a great deal - but finding the merging magic between the tunnel and the door of the airplane is always challenging- learning from aff programs is cool tool.---some flyiers do get trapped in thier experience factor - - going up and down with the mindset is like searching for memory structures between your mind and your body - - seeing how it all fitts together might get the Armys attenchine - like getting recruited by the Green Lanturn Corp - of something:-) If thats how you spell that.??


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